Happy Trails Mariano Topic

It's gonna be really hard for Rivera to come back. Kudos to him for staying good this long, but it won't be easy to rebound and get back into top shape after a surgery like that, at his age.
5/6/2012 1:23 AM
Someone on this website calling someone else a statgeek. LOL
5/6/2012 2:09 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 5/6/2012 1:23:00 AM (view original):
It's gonna be really hard for Rivera to come back. Kudos to him for staying good this long, but it won't be easy to rebound and get back into top shape after a surgery like that, at his age.
It's a knee not a shoulder/elbow.    Yes, he needs his leg to pitch but stamina/conditioning isn't nearly as important for a RP.    I don't think his comeback will be that difficult.
5/6/2012 7:29 AM
I'm just talking in general about the body rebounding and rehabbing from a significant surgery. That becomes much more difficult as one gets older.
5/6/2012 10:48 PM
Mariano Rivera is the greatest closer of all time.  GOAT.  As a Mets fan, it usually does not sadden me to see a Yankee fall on hard times.  It did here.  As a baseball fan, I was deeply disturbed by this news.  He is in the top 10 all-time Yankees for sure.  Arguably top 5.  For an organization as deep as the new York Yankees...  that is truly a monstrous feat.  He didn't deserve to have this happen.  His plan was to retire after this season.  He shouldn't have to come back next season to end on his terms.  He deserved better. 

And as for the notion that statistically Billy Wagner was almost his equal....  Well...  lets say that was an ambitious statement.  Wagner is good.  Very good.  He ain't Mariano Rivera.

Wagner's best season save-wise was 44.  Rivera managed that number or better 5 times, and twice had 43.  Wagner had 300 less IP, yet had more HRs allowed by a GOOD margin (82-65 or 25% more in 25% fewer innings), more BB (300-277).  He was a power pitcher, more than Rivera was, no doubt.  He had more whiffs (1196-1119) in fewer innings than Rivera.  And yes...  the same WHIP (0.998).  Rivera's ERA was lower by a small amount (2.20-2.31).  But Rivera's ERA+  is the GOAT at 206 because he pitched in the AMERICAN LEAGUE, while all but 13ip of Wagner's career came in the lighter hitting NL, leaving Wagner's ERA+ at a more than respectable 187, but a full 10% less than Rivera (or in HR terms, 76 homers behind Bonds for GOAT).  I dont think we have to talk about postseason.....  I think Billy Wagner was top 3 or 4 all time as a closer.  But there is no argument placing him in the same chapter of any relief pitching book as Rivera, let alone the same sentence.  Rivera was in a class by himself. 
5/7/2012 1:43 PM
I agree that Rivera was better than Wagner.  The IP, the harder league, the better ERA+, and the magnificent post season stats all point to that conclusion.

But my point is that we need to keep Rivera's accomplishments in context.  He was a relief pitcher.  A great one, but still a relief pitcher.  Not a player whose legend should rival that of the all time greats.  Because he's not.

If you were going to draft a team choosing from all the players in ML history, at what point would you take Rivera?  

There are at least 100 position players I'd rather have and maybe 50 other pitchers.  Realistically, I'd draft Mussina, Glavine, Schilling, and even Kevin Brown before I took any relief pitcher.
5/7/2012 5:33 PM
I'd draft Rivera as soon as I've drafted 4 good starting pitchers and 8 good position players.
5/7/2012 5:49 PM
Posted by jm1618 on 5/7/2012 5:49:00 PM (view original):
I'd draft Rivera as soon as I've drafted 4 good starting pitchers and 8 good position players.
Exactly.  Depending on the number of teams in this made up draft of mine, Rivera gets selected somewhere north of pick 120.

That's a Hall of Famer, but not inner circle, Yankee Rushmore greatness.
5/7/2012 5:53 PM
That's 13th if it's a one team draft.    Why not take a few back-ups, an extra SP or three and then worry about your bullpen?
5/7/2012 8:12 PM
Best players of all time (in order)

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ted Williams
3. Walter Johnson
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Cy Young
6. Mariano Rivera
7. Willie Mays
8. Billy Wagner
9. Barry Bonds
10. Ty Cobb
5/7/2012 8:13 PM
Posted by boogerlips on 5/7/2012 8:13:00 PM (view original):
Best players of all time (in order)

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ted Williams
3. Walter Johnson
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Cy Young
6. Mariano Rivera
7. Willie Mays
8. Billy Wagner
9. Barry Bonds
10. Ty Cobb
I don't think anyone is going to fall for this one.
5/7/2012 8:37 PM
Posted by boogerlips on 5/7/2012 8:13:00 PM (view original):
Best players of all time (in order)

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ted Williams
3. Walter Johnson
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Cy Young
6. Mariano Rivera
7. Willie Mays
8. Billy Wagner
9. Barry Bonds
10. Ty Cobb
Billy Wagner over Ty Cobb.  That's . . . interesting.
5/7/2012 8:37 PM
Posted by mudbone1969 on 5/7/2012 8:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by boogerlips on 5/7/2012 8:13:00 PM (view original):
Best players of all time (in order)

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ted Williams
3. Walter Johnson
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Cy Young
6. Mariano Rivera
7. Willie Mays
8. Billy Wagner
9. Barry Bonds
10. Ty Cobb
I don't think anyone is going to fall for this one.
I'm just going with the trend of the thread...
5/7/2012 9:03 PM

Obvious poke attempt.  No Jeter.  Dumbass.

5/7/2012 9:03 PM
Jeter is what I meant by "Walter Johnson".
5/7/2012 9:20 PM
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Happy Trails Mariano Topic

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