Happy Trails Mariano Topic

jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2012 8:12:00 PM (view original):
That's 13th if it's a one team draft.    Why not take a few back-ups, an extra SP or three and then worry about your bullpen?
It's not a one team draft. 120 is being generous with a ten team draft. More teams and he's coming off the board closer to 200.
5/7/2012 10:27 PM
The Taint
Posts: 13297 (0)
Hall of Famer
1072 3
Hall of Famer
I'm in the middle of a draft right now where you pick a player and are randomly assigned one of their years.....full complement of any MLB player to ever play....he went 71st.
5/7/2012 11:20 PM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Posted by jrd_x on 5/7/2012 10:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2012 8:12:00 PM (view original):
That's 13th if it's a one team draft.    Why not take a few back-ups, an extra SP or three and then worry about your bullpen?
It's not a one team draft. 120 is being generous with a ten team draft. More teams and he's coming off the board closer to 200.
If you're just playing pretend, why can't it be a one team draft?

Hell, I'll play.  It's a 130 team draft.  He's now a first-rounder!!!!
5/8/2012 7:08 AM
jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
It's my draft, I set the rules.
5/8/2012 9:55 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
That's OK.  I was playing in a different league.   The 130 team league.   Rivera was a first rounder.
5/8/2012 10:00 AM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
I'm waiting to hear about the respective FIPs of Rivera, Wagner and Hoffman.  Because that will really tell us who the best closer is.
5/8/2012 10:17 AM
deanod
Posts: 3152 (0)
Hall of Famer
115 18 1 128 1 52
Prospect
Posted by Jtpsops on 5/5/2012 3:43:00 PM (view original):

Did Wagner do it over 15 years? Does he have as many saves as Rivera? Is his post-season resume as good as Rivera's? Did he ever pitch in an environment like NY?

Stop being a stat geek.

just perused this thread and i'm pretty surprised to see that jtard made a post i agreed with
5/8/2012 10:41 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Posted by tecwrg on 5/8/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
I'm waiting to hear about the respective FIPs of Rivera, Wagner and Hoffman.  Because that will really tell us who the best closer is.

I think we've found the "logic" jrdx is using.

Since Wagner was a better strikeout pitcher, I'm sure his FIP is better.   Sawing the bat off in the batter's hand has no value. 

5/8/2012 10:50 AM
deanod
Posts: 3152 (0)
Hall of Famer
115 18 1 128 1 52
Prospect
but then again this jrdx fella seems like he stumbled into fangraphs and misinterpreted the hell out of it, making himself an easy target.
5/8/2012 10:50 AM
deanod
Posts: 3152 (0)
Hall of Famer
115 18 1 128 1 52
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 5/8/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
I'm waiting to hear about the respective FIPs of Rivera, Wagner and Hoffman.  Because that will really tell us who the best closer is.

I think we've found the "logic" jrdx is using.

Since Wagner was a better strikeout pitcher, I'm sure his FIP is better.   Sawing the bat off in the batter's hand has no value. 

he's just cherrypicking random advanced stats to try to play devil's advocate, i think.

wagner was pretty ill, but his career is pretty clearly dwarfed by mo's.

i get his overall logic (a good position player or SP > great closer) but I think it's stupid to bring it up as a means to dimish mo's accomplishments.
5/8/2012 10:55 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
I think you were right when you said "he stumbled into fangraphs and misinterpreted the hell out of it".   You probably missed his other shining moments.
5/8/2012 10:58 AM
deanod
Posts: 3152 (0)
Hall of Famer
115 18 1 128 1 52
Prospect
well he said that gayrod belongs on the yankees' mt rushmore before rivera.  that shines pretty brightly
5/8/2012 10:59 AM
jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
Did you guys miss the part where I said Rivera was clearly better than Wagner?  My point is that they aren't too far apart.  And I don't even have to use newer stats to show it.  Their career WHIPs are exactly the same.  Their career ERAs are 0.1 different.

According to MikeT's "Catfish Hunter was just as good as Steve Carlton" (TM) logic, they were the same pitcher.

The whole point is that Rivera was very good, a Hall of Famer, the best reliever ever.  But he was still just a relief pitcher.  A little better than Billy Wagner.  The skinniest kid at fat camp.  Not one of the four best Yankees of all time.  Not an inner circle Hall of Famer.
5/8/2012 11:23 AM
deanod
Posts: 3152 (0)
Hall of Famer
115 18 1 128 1 52
Prospect
Posted by jrd_x on 5/8/2012 11:23:00 AM (view original):
Did you guys miss the part where I said Rivera was clearly better than Wagner?  My point is that they aren't too far apart.  And I don't even have to use newer stats to show it.  Their career WHIPs are exactly the same.  Their career ERAs are 0.1 different.

According to MikeT's "Catfish Hunter was just as good as Steve Carlton" (TM) logic, they were the same pitcher.

The whole point is that Rivera was very good, a Hall of Famer, the best reliever ever.  But he was still just a relief pitcher.  A little better than Billy Wagner.  The skinniest kid at fat camp.  Not one of the four best Yankees of all time.  Not an inner circle Hall of Famer.

First of all Mt Rushmore isn't necessarily the same thing as "four best."

Second, Olney is the only one who said it that he belong on Yankee Rushmore

Third, skinniest kid at fat camp is a bad analogy for so many reasons.  Fat camp is a decidedly NEGATIVE place to be in because it means you're fat an unattractive.  Closers have a less positive impact than other players, but the good ones still have a decidedly positive impact.  And if you're alluding to the fact that all RP's are failed starters blah blah blah...then why haven't any other failed starters been nearly as effective as Mariano?  Do you really think any random #2/3 SP would mirror his success if they were stuck in the closers role?  Hell, would Roy Halladay or CC Sabathia even necessarily have as successful of a career as a closer?  It's not certain that they would.

5/8/2012 11:32 AM
deanod
Posts: 3152 (0)
Hall of Famer
115 18 1 128 1 52
Prospect
And oh yeah btw 141 IP 0.70 ERA 0.76 WHIP in his playoff career.  Billy Wagner has 11.2 IP 10.03 ERA.  Aside from the fact that one is amazing and the other isn't, combine these with their reg season stats and it will look less close.
5/8/2012 11:35 AM
◂ Prev 1...3|4|5|6|7...11 Next ▸
Happy Trails Mariano Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.