All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Gold Glover Jeter, Best SS Evah!!!, robbed of MVP
3/14/2013 10:10 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/14/2013 9:34:00 AM (view original):
Unless you're suggesting they'd always have a star SS through free agency.  In which case I'd disagree with that idea too.  That's tough.
Reyes is the only one that came to mind in recent history.   At least among SS that changed teams.  And that was last year.   Furcal is probably #2.  No thanks.
3/14/2013 10:26 AM
Posted by sergei91 on 3/14/2013 9:56:00 AM (view original):
jeter's value has never really been in his glove. it's been in his bat, leadership, etc. so he's most valuable at ss as it's the most premium position in baseball, i think.
If glove isn't his biggest value, maybe he shouldn't have been at SS. A leader with a good bat should be fine at another position. Not that I would have moved him, but I wouldn't have left him there because of his leadership if someone like Rollins had been available.
3/14/2013 10:46 AM
Jeter becomes less valuable if he moves from SS.  Like if you put Granderson at 1B.  

I might prefer Matsui/Jeter than Jeter/Rollins, to be honest.  And the Yankees wouldn't be paying Jeter the contracts he's had to play LF...he'd be on another team if the Yankees insisted on playing Rollins at SS.  If Rollins even became available.
3/14/2013 11:00 AM
This is actually a pretty dumb discussion.   Yanks won 5 WS with Jeter at SS.   How much better off could they have been?   6 WS?  7 WS?   If you believe that, produce some proof that his fielding kept them from achieving those titles.
3/14/2013 11:26 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/14/2013 10:46:00 AM (view original):
Jeter becomes less valuable if he moves from SS.  Like if you put Granderson at 1B.  

I might prefer Matsui/Jeter than Jeter/Rollins, to be honest.  And the Yankees wouldn't be paying Jeter the contracts he's had to play LF...he'd be on another team if the Yankees insisted on playing Rollins at SS.  If Rollins even became available.
I completely agree about the value. And I'm not a huge Rollins fan, I just picked someone who has had a long career, is a definite upgrade defensively over Jeter, and who hasn't been terrible with the bat.

My main point is that maybe the Yankees could have been even better with Jeter at another position and a defensive upgrade at SS. For example, the 2002 Yankees lost in the LDS (after winning 103 games in the regular season). Rondel White (240/283/378 76 OPS+) was their primary left fielder. Alfonso Soriano (-35 UZR career at 2nd) was their primary second baseman.

If, and this is a big if, they could have found a good defensive shortstop with a bat better than Rondel White, they would have been better. Either by moving Jeter to 2nd and Soriano to left or by just moving Jeter to left.

Note: I'm taking a look at the good defensive SS from 2002-2005 and really, none stand out as good offensive players. It's guys like Jack Wilson. Orlando Cabrera, and Alex Gonzalez. Forget about moving Jeter, the Yankees should have focused on finding a left fielder who could actually hit.
3/14/2013 11:29 AM
Exactly, that's the point, Jeter is fairly irreplaceable during that time.  And Soriano was a terrible 2B,  if any IFer should be moved to LF, it's him.
3/14/2013 11:42 AM
not to mention, jeter would have refused to move from ss. just like in real life. so it's a moot point
3/14/2013 11:45 AM
Posted by sergei91 on 3/14/2013 11:42:00 AM (view original):
not to mention, jeter would have refused to move from ss. just like in real life. so it's a moot point
He would have refused? What leadership skills.
3/14/2013 12:11 PM
i assume you know what i meant. the yanks wouldn't think of even suggesting it, therefore he wouldn't have to move. just like what happened with arod.
3/14/2013 1:09 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/14/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
This is actually a pretty dumb discussion.   Yanks won 5 WS with Jeter at SS.   How much better off could they have been?   6 WS?  7 WS?   If you believe that, produce some proof that his fielding kept them from achieving those titles.
And you thought what I said was stupid...
3/14/2013 1:54 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 3/14/2013 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/14/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
This is actually a pretty dumb discussion.   Yanks won 5 WS with Jeter at SS.   How much better off could they have been?   6 WS?  7 WS?   If you believe that, produce some proof that his fielding kept them from achieving those titles.
And you thought what I said was stupid...
It was and you recanted the "probably good enough" last night.

So are you going to provide some sort of proof that Jeter at SS kept the Yanks from winning more WS?    It's not like they've struggled greatly with him at SS, is it?
3/14/2013 3:41 PM
So your line for the HOF is "didn't keep his team from winning more WS" and "didn't cause his team to struggle greatly?"  Jeter didn't win the WS, the Yankees did.  Last year the Giants won the WS with Brandon Crawford at SS.  If they win another couple of series does that make him a HOFer?  Team success has very little to do with HOF credentials from where I stand...
3/14/2013 3:44 PM
If the Giants win a couple more WS, it makes Buster Posey a HOFer.  And since Brandon Crawford is from my town (and the same high school my kids went to), he should be in as well.
3/14/2013 3:53 PM
I'm shocked that commish thinks WS wins makes individual players HOFers.

...
3/14/2013 3:59 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 3/14/2013 3:41:00 PM (view original):
So your line for the HOF is "didn't keep his team from winning more WS" and "didn't cause his team to struggle greatly?"  Jeter didn't win the WS, the Yankees did.  Last year the Giants won the WS with Brandon Crawford at SS.  If they win another couple of series does that make him a HOFer?  Team success has very little to do with HOF credentials from where I stand...
Once we got passed the dumbassery of "probably good enough for the HOF", we moved on to "would the Yanks have been better off with another SS and Jeter at another position?"

Seems to me the Yanks fared quite well with Jeter at SS.    Do you disagree?
of 30
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Gold Glover Jeter, Best SS Evah!!!, robbed of MVP

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.