All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Gold Glover Jeter, Best SS Evah!!!, robbed of MVP
3/26/2013 3:32 PM
Anyone who says Jeter is overpaid is having trouble distinguishing between baseball in the real world and HBD.  You could make an argument that he's somewhat overpaid in terms of his raw baseball skills at this point, or at least what might have been reasonably expected before his rebound season last year, but relative to the value he's adding to the franchise he's being paid very fairly.  He contributes a lot of value with his leadership and fan popularity.
3/26/2013 3:52 PM
It's another argument I've had before.  I'm not getting into leadership, but fan popularity? It's driven by wins. If the Yankees put together the best team possible, and it was without Derek Jeter, they'd be just as popular as they were with him.
3/26/2013 4:10 PM
I'm not 100% certain that's true.  I think you're oversimplifying things.  Would they still sell out their games?  Yes.  They might lose a little bit of their media audience, but probably a negligible amount that wouldn't hurt them much, if at all, in terms of advertising revenue.  But FanFest type events, Spring Training games, meet and greet/signing type events, etc., which for the Yankees can actually bring a substantial number of fans and revenue, could take a big hit.  Right now all kinds of fans want to go see Jeter, and the team is capitalizing on that to the tune of millions of dollars of extra revenue.  Without Jeter the biggest draws would be Cano and Rivera, and neither of them have nearly the fan appeal.
3/26/2013 4:13 PM
I disagree.  Teams with unlikeable players don't draw as well.   One of the ESPN talking heads was yapping about it the other day.   He was trying to play a race card, it was a NBA team in a "white" state, but the concept is the same.  

I supposed I could do some research, it would have to be with SP since I'd be looking for attendance stats, but there is a draw when there is a fan favorite on the team.  And, quite honestly, there aren't many fan favorites on the Yanks.    If nothing else, go to a Yankee home game.  You'll see more Jeter jerseys than the rest combined. 
3/26/2013 4:14 PM
I was obviously disagreeing with burnsy.
3/26/2013 5:20 PM
Obviously.  But I don't think the Yankees, specifically, are going to sell a lot less seats without Jeter.  They're pretty much going to sell out every game regardless.

Oh wait, that doesn't happen anymore in the new stadium?

3/26/2013 5:21 PM
Even in the playoffs?
3/26/2013 5:21 PM
Maybe they do need Jeter.

And you know, if you've been reading this thread for a while, that I'm not Jeter's biggest fan in terms of contributions on the field.

3/26/2013 6:40 PM
If more people go to Yankee games because Jeter is playing, I would guess its negligible. It's purely hypothetical, but I'll give you 2 scenarios:

A) Jeter is signed, team wins 90 games.
B) Jeter is not signed, player of equal quality is signed for 2/3 the price, money saved goes towards another player. Team wins 92 games.

I would argue that the team in scenario B would be more popular, and draw more fans. And if the cutoff to make the playoffs was 91 wins? The team would be MUCH more popular in scenario B.

Again, were assuming the Yankees have a max budget, which probably isn't the case. It doesnt really apply. But just look at attendance figures - the good teams draw well. The great teams who make the playoffs draw even better. The 1981 Yankees, a WS team, was 1st in the AL in attendance. In 1991, they were 11th of 15. In 2001, they were 2nd.
3/26/2013 6:58 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/26/2013 6:40:00 PM (view original):
If more people go to Yankee games because Jeter is playing, I would guess its negligible. It's purely hypothetical, but I'll give you 2 scenarios:

A) Jeter is signed, team wins 90 games.
B) Jeter is not signed, player of equal quality is signed for 2/3 the price, money saved goes towards another player. Team wins 92 games.

I would argue that the team in scenario B would be more popular, and draw more fans. And if the cutoff to make the playoffs was 91 wins? The team would be MUCH more popular in scenario B.

Again, were assuming the Yankees have a max budget, which probably isn't the case. It doesnt really apply. But just look at attendance figures - the good teams draw well. The great teams who make the playoffs draw even better. The 1981 Yankees, a WS team, was 1st in the AL in attendance. In 1991, they were 11th of 15. In 2001, they were 2nd.
Agree completely.
3/26/2013 7:20 PM
That's why the Rays draw so much, right?  And the Cubs don't?

Your scenario could not be more wrong.  You think until the last win of the season a team that's going to win 90 games draws differently than a team that's going to win 92 as a result of "greater success?"  Seriously?  I can virtually guarantee you that in your scenario team A outdraws team B by a hundred thousand at least.
3/26/2013 7:31 PM (edited)
I think you found the 2 exceptions to the rule. And the Marlins. And any new ballpark that opens, that skews it too. For at least a few years, usually.

Don Mattingly was a star. Why did so few fans go to games?
3/26/2013 7:31 PM
Alright, oversimplify it down to the point of being ridiculous.  Just answer this simple question:

Do you really think winning 2 more games over the course of a season is going to cause a bigger increase in attendance than having the favorite player of 70% of the fans and their children?

3/26/2013 7:33 PM
In 2001 the Orioles won 63 games and drew almost 3.1 million.

Cal Ripken retired.

In 2002 the Orioles won 69 games and drew under 2.7 million.

3/26/2013 7:37 PM
Maybe its not 2 wins. Maybe its 5. Its probably based more on playoff performance and appearances. When Jeter retires, there isn't going to a drop of several hundred thousand people. Well...actually there might, based on team performance.

When Ripken retired, did you find yourself going to significantly less games? Or are you a true Orioles fan, and you go to watch the uniform, not the player? (assuming you live in/near Baltimore)
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All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Gold Glover Jeter, Best SS Evah!!!, robbed of MVP

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