All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > R.I.P. Ron Santo
12/5/2011 10:34 PM
Posted by tecwrg2 on 12/5/2011 10:25:00 PM (view original):
Why did Santo never get more than 43% of the BBWAA vote?
The reason I've heard is that they didn't want to elect 4 players from the Cubs of the 1960's, with Banks, Williams, and Fergie already in.  Doesn't make much sense to me, but that's how they saw it.
12/5/2011 10:45 PM
Like the BBWAA are infallible.  They gave frigging Ozzie Smith 97% of the vote when he was a borderline HOFer at best.
12/6/2011 12:07 AM
Posted by tecwrg2 on 12/5/2011 10:25:00 PM (view original):
Why did Santo never get more than 43% of the BBWAA vote?
Because the BBWAA are idiots. They bought into the narrative for Brooks. Brooks had the good sense to play for better teams than did Ronnie, with far better pitching staffs, thus reaching the post-season (in those days it was only the WS) where he created the "World Series Defensive Wizard at 3B" position (largely due to 1970, he was very good!). He was also a very likable guy with whom the writers felt a genuine sense of affection. It was easy to vote for him. Not sure the writers (as a group) felt

I actually agree that Brooks deserves to be in the HOF. I just think Ronnie may have been a wee bit better player. Depends on how one ranks the offense/defense equilibrium. Brooks was better defensively, Ron on offense. If forced to choose one I would take Ron's offense over Brooksie's D. It's not like was a slouch with the glove, after all. He did win a few Gold Gloves (as silly as their selections can sometimes be. Andre Ethier? Really, with a bad knee? Did the voters really watch him play this year?)

The HOF Monitor was created NOT to predict who deserves to be in, but to predict who is MORE LIKELY to be enshrined. I'd say it predicted quite well in regards to Brooks and Ron.


12/6/2011 12:32 AM
Ron Santo should be borderline to make it into the Cubs hall of fame. He's no Pie Traynor.
12/6/2011 12:40 AM
Can't argue with that/

In 1940 G, Pie had an OBP/SLG line of .362/.435 and an OPS+ (from B-R, which is park adjusted) of 107

In 2243 G, Santo had an OBP/SLG line of .362/.464 and an OPS+(same source) of 125

Looks like Ron was doing a bit more to move the scoreboard
12/6/2011 12:43 AM
Yeah, but Pie Traynor had the added handicap of having the first name Pie.  That should 15 OPS points alone. 
12/6/2011 5:36 AM
AN A MIDDLE NAME OF HOLE
12/6/2011 8:21 AM
I won't respond to all the dumbassery in this thread but the BBWAA is dismissed while Bill James is quoted.

C'mon.
12/6/2011 10:50 AM
The BBWAA is not qualified to vote.  So called "Journalism" is the last refuge of the moderately intelligent without specialized knowledge or practical skills.  One good thing Bill James did point out was questioning exactly where the stone tablets were carved that said the BBWAA should be gatekeepers to Cooperstown.

IMHO, the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR) would be a fantastic replacement for the BBWAA.  Specifically, a new specialized committee within SABR would yield the best results.  Those people are the experts not the scribblers with myopic vision for their hometown press beat.

Of course the argument never can be truly settled.  There will always be unhappy people who say Don Mattingly is plenty good enough while the heads of some others will spin 360 degrees at anything south of Frank Robinson.
12/6/2011 1:01 PM
Bill James has Santo ranked 6th best ever at 3B. "Ron Santo was a better player than most of the third basemen in the Hall of Fame..." "Ron Santo towers far above the real standard of the real Hall of Fame."
12/6/2011 1:03 PM
Posted by augie_ojeda on 12/6/2011 12:32:00 AM (view original):
Ron Santo should be borderline to make it into the Cubs hall of fame. He's no Pie Traynor.
Traynor is ranked 15th by James
12/6/2011 1:16 PM
Posted by SpotSell on 12/6/2011 10:50:00 AM (view original):
The BBWAA is not qualified to vote.  So called "Journalism" is the last refuge of the moderately intelligent without specialized knowledge or practical skills.  One good thing Bill James did point out was questioning exactly where the stone tablets were carved that said the BBWAA should be gatekeepers to Cooperstown.

IMHO, the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR) would be a fantastic replacement for the BBWAA.  Specifically, a new specialized committee within SABR would yield the best results.  Those people are the experts not the scribblers with myopic vision for their hometown press beat.

Of course the argument never can be truly settled.  There will always be unhappy people who say Don Mattingly is plenty good enough while the heads of some others will spin 360 degrees at anything south of Frank Robinson.
Who made you the gatekeeper of those qualified to vote?

The HOF is a joke anyway but to declare this group sholdn't vote but this one should is the same silliness that's applied already.   Santo in the cheap version of the HOF that we have?  Sure, why not?   Santo as one of the best players of all-time?   A joke.   And that's not meant to diminish Santo's accomplishments.  They're just not something you're going to tell your grandkids about if you're not a Cubs fan.

As an example, Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada gave me some joyous moments and nice memories.  Will I mention them in conversation 20 years from now?  Probably.   Will a Dodgers fan?  Nope.   Isn't that something that should play a part in the Hall of Fame?   Everybody knows the greats.   Specific groups know the rest. 
12/6/2011 1:36 PM
SCRUB FANS ARE EXTREME HOMERS AND VERY PROVINCIAL
12/6/2011 1:40 PM
Someone wrote:

"Who made you the gatekeeper of those qualified to vote?"

This is an easy answer.  Some men rise to offer a solution.  Some men prefer to complain.
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
of 8
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > R.I.P. Ron Santo

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.