All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > R.I.P. Ron Santo
12/6/2011 10:44 PM
This bodes well for Don Mattingly.
12/6/2011 10:48 PM
Posted by jm1618 on 12/6/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):
Santo is ranked 75th in career WAR.  The Hall of Fame has more than 200 members.  Prior to his selection, he had the 3rd highest WAR total of all non-Hall of Famers who were off the BBWAA ballot.  I think this is far from a "lowest common denominator" case.
These aren't my words:  "The only way we can judge a player's candidacy is to compare him to other members of the Hall."

And those words indicate lowest common denominator.
12/6/2011 10:49 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2011 10:44:00 PM (view original):
This bodes well for Don Mattingly.
Well, he has to become a beloved broadcaster with health issues.   And then die.    But, yeah, LCD is a big help.
12/6/2011 10:54 PM
Speaking of comparisons, here's who Santo compares to via Bill James' "Similarity Score" calculation:

  1. Dale Murphy (875)
  2. Gary Gaetti (875)
  3. Ken Boyer (874)
  4. Ruben Sierra (865)
  5. Chili Davis (865)
  6. Bobby Bonilla (863)
  7. Brian Downing (862)
  8. Graig Nettles (860)
  9. Scott Rolen (857)
  10. Adrian Beltre (855)
So he compares well to 10 non-HOFers.
12/6/2011 10:57 PM
The Immortal Gary Gaetti isn't in the HOF?   
12/6/2011 10:59 PM
According to the "lowest common denominator" litmus test, he should now eventually get the call.
12/6/2011 11:05 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2011 10:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jm1618 on 12/6/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):
Santo is ranked 75th in career WAR.  The Hall of Fame has more than 200 members.  Prior to his selection, he had the 3rd highest WAR total of all non-Hall of Famers who were off the BBWAA ballot.  I think this is far from a "lowest common denominator" case.
These aren't my words:  "The only way we can judge a player's candidacy is to compare him to other members of the Hall."

And those words indicate lowest common denominator.
I never said to compare him to the worst Hall of Famers.  But he shouldn't be compared to the Hall's upper eschelon either.  He should be compared to the mainstream Hall of Famers.

The fact that Santo ranks in the top half of the Hall in terms of career WAR clearly shows that he's deserving.
12/6/2011 11:10 PM (edited)
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2011 10:54:00 PM (view original):
Speaking of comparisons, here's who Santo compares to via Bill James' "Similarity Score" calculation:

  1. Dale Murphy (875)
  2. Gary Gaetti (875)
  3. Ken Boyer (874)
  4. Ruben Sierra (865)
  5. Chili Davis (865)
  6. Bobby Bonilla (863)
  7. Brian Downing (862)
  8. Graig Nettles (860)
  9. Scott Rolen (857)
  10. Adrian Beltre (855)
So he compares well to 10 non-HOFers.
The similarity score is a meaningless statistic, since it makes no adjustment for era.  No one seems to mention that Santo played in the pitching-dominated 1960's.  All of the players in that list had their primes in more hitter-friendly eras.
12/7/2011 3:34 AM
Ruben Sierra is on the ballot for the first time this year so let's not count him as a non-HOFer just yet!  
12/7/2011 6:42 AM
Posted by jm1618 on 12/6/2011 11:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2011 10:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jm1618 on 12/6/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):
Santo is ranked 75th in career WAR.  The Hall of Fame has more than 200 members.  Prior to his selection, he had the 3rd highest WAR total of all non-Hall of Famers who were off the BBWAA ballot.  I think this is far from a "lowest common denominator" case.
These aren't my words:  "The only way we can judge a player's candidacy is to compare him to other members of the Hall."

And those words indicate lowest common denominator.
I never said to compare him to the worst Hall of Famers.  But he shouldn't be compared to the Hall's upper eschelon either.  He should be compared to the mainstream Hall of Famers.

The fact that Santo ranks in the top half of the Hall in terms of career WAR clearly shows that he's deserving.
It's implied.

"But he's better than......" is the next course of argument. 
12/7/2011 6:53 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2011 10:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2011 10:44:00 PM (view original):
This bodes well for Don Mattingly.
Well, he has to become a beloved broadcaster with health issues.   And then die.    But, yeah, LCD is a big help.
Bobby Murcer?  After all, he did come up as "the next Mickey Mantle".
12/7/2011 8:26 AM
12/7/2011 9:37 AM
There will always be discussions about someone's HOF credentials. Some will disagree with the voting. That's a given. Makes for fun discourse. Unlike the all star balloting the HOF reduces it to a small committee of so called experts instead of leaving it up to the fans. It's up to them. I am glad they voted Ronnie in and frankly there are many that feel the same as I. They all aren't logged in to WIS. I notice how quickly Santo is selected in progressive drafts...
12/7/2011 10:41 AM
I don't object to his enshrinement as much as it seems.   The HOF stopped meaning anything long ago.   The best thing they could do is section it off. 

Great players - Ruth, Cobb, Young, etc, etc
Great accomplishments - Larsen's no-hitter, Rose's hits, Rickey's SB, etc, etc
The rest - Santo, Rizzuto, Puckett, etc, etc. 

Of course, people will gripe that they're treating Santo and Puckett as 2nd class citizens.
12/7/2011 10:56 AM

Here are a list of 3b in the HOF.   Where does Santo rank?    
 


Well, he's better than Kell and Lindstrom...he probably is significantly worse than Schmidt, Matthews, Robinson, Brett, Boggs, and Traynor.

He's in the top 10 (or 12 depending on some modern guys)  of third basemen of all time....take that for what it is worth.

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