All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Ichiro's 3000th Hit - 253 to go! First Ballot HOF!
8/22/2013 4:44 PM
Mike -  I looked up JAWS for you, Raines wins there too. 55.6 to 51.4.
8/22/2013 4:46 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2013 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Mike -  I looked up JAWS for you, Raines wins there too. 55.6 to 51.4.
So it took 10 extra seasons for Raines to be 4.2 points better?   Is that good?
8/22/2013 4:48 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 4:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2013 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Mike -  I looked up JAWS for you, Raines wins there too. 55.6 to 51.4.
So it took 10 extra seasons for Raines to be 4.2 points better?   Is that good?
Do you know what "4.2 points" even means?

500 games, not 10 seasons. Stop being stupid.
8/22/2013 4:50 PM
For what it's worth, Ichiro comes in below HOF average for right fielders (51.4 to 55.4) and Raines comes in above HOF average for LF (55.6 to  50.7).
8/22/2013 4:51 PM
I know it's less than 10% better in, under your new terms, 3 full seasons.    So, in your 16 to 13 seasons, Raines is about 3.5 per while Ichiro is almost 4.   Closer but, where I come from, 4 is more than 3.5.    Of course, we don't give out trophies for just showing up.   Well, we do.   But it's at the Special Olympics and we call them "Partipation trophies".

How many of those do you have?
8/22/2013 4:54 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 4:51:00 PM (view original):
I know it's less than 10% better in, under your new terms, 3 full seasons.    So, in your 16 to 13 seasons, Raines is about 3.5 per while Ichiro is almost 4.   Closer but, where I come from, 4 is more than 3.5.    Of course, we don't give out trophies for just showing up.   Well, we do.   But it's at the Special Olympics and we call them "Partipation trophies".

How many of those do you have?
Player A plays 16 seasons and accumulates 69 WAR.
Player B plays 13 seasons and accumulates 59 WAR.

And you're saying that B is better?

You know what you have to do to get a participation trophy? SHOW THE **** UP. Which player B didn't do for 3 full seasons while player A did, accumulating 10 more wins above replacement.

You ******* retard.
8/22/2013 6:02 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2013 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 4:51:00 PM (view original):
I know it's less than 10% better in, under your new terms, 3 full seasons.    So, in your 16 to 13 seasons, Raines is about 3.5 per while Ichiro is almost 4.   Closer but, where I come from, 4 is more than 3.5.    Of course, we don't give out trophies for just showing up.   Well, we do.   But it's at the Special Olympics and we call them "Partipation trophies".

How many of those do you have?
Player A plays 16 seasons and accumulates 69 WAR.
Player B plays 13 seasons and accumulates 59 WAR.

And you're saying that B is better?

You know what you have to do to get a participation trophy? SHOW THE **** UP. Which player B didn't do for 3 full seasons while player A did, accumulating 10 more wins above replacement.

You ******* retard.
The difference between Player A (average of 4.3 WAR per season) and Player B (average of 4.5 WAR per season) is negligible.  Getting the extra three seasons from Player A probably makes more sense.

But . . . Player A actually played for 23 seasons, not 16.  So his average of 3.0 WAR per season is 33% less than Player B's average, so Player B would be the better player.
8/22/2013 6:19 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 8/22/2013 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2013 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 4:51:00 PM (view original):
I know it's less than 10% better in, under your new terms, 3 full seasons.    So, in your 16 to 13 seasons, Raines is about 3.5 per while Ichiro is almost 4.   Closer but, where I come from, 4 is more than 3.5.    Of course, we don't give out trophies for just showing up.   Well, we do.   But it's at the Special Olympics and we call them "Partipation trophies".

How many of those do you have?
Player A plays 16 seasons and accumulates 69 WAR.
Player B plays 13 seasons and accumulates 59 WAR.

And you're saying that B is better?

You know what you have to do to get a participation trophy? SHOW THE **** UP. Which player B didn't do for 3 full seasons while player A did, accumulating 10 more wins above replacement.

You ******* retard.
The difference between Player A (average of 4.3 WAR per season) and Player B (average of 4.5 WAR per season) is negligible.  Getting the extra three seasons from Player A probably makes more sense.

But . . . Player A actually played for 23 seasons, not 16.  So his average of 3.0 WAR per season is 33% less than Player B's average, so Player B would be the better player.
Ridiculous.

You're counting Raines 23 seasons as 23 full seasons??? In 1979 he played 6 games and had zero plate appearances as a 19 year old. You're counting that against him? In 1980, when he was 20, he had 27 plate appearances.

Raines played in 500 more games than Ichiro, or a hair over 3 seasons. Ichiro is 10 WAR behind Raines. To match Raines' production he'll have to be at least a 2 win player every year for another 5 years. I don't see that happening, do you?
8/22/2013 6:25 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2013 6:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/22/2013 6:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/22/2013 4:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 4:51:00 PM (view original):
I know it's less than 10% better in, under your new terms, 3 full seasons.    So, in your 16 to 13 seasons, Raines is about 3.5 per while Ichiro is almost 4.   Closer but, where I come from, 4 is more than 3.5.    Of course, we don't give out trophies for just showing up.   Well, we do.   But it's at the Special Olympics and we call them "Partipation trophies".

How many of those do you have?
Player A plays 16 seasons and accumulates 69 WAR.
Player B plays 13 seasons and accumulates 59 WAR.

And you're saying that B is better?

You know what you have to do to get a participation trophy? SHOW THE **** UP. Which player B didn't do for 3 full seasons while player A did, accumulating 10 more wins above replacement.

You ******* retard.
The difference between Player A (average of 4.3 WAR per season) and Player B (average of 4.5 WAR per season) is negligible.  Getting the extra three seasons from Player A probably makes more sense.

But . . . Player A actually played for 23 seasons, not 16.  So his average of 3.0 WAR per season is 33% less than Player B's average, so Player B would be the better player.
Ridiculous.

You're counting Raines 23 seasons as 23 full seasons??? In 1979 he played 6 games and had zero plate appearances as a 19 year old. You're counting that against him? In 1980, when he was 20, he had 27 plate appearances.

Raines played in 500 more games than Ichiro, or a hair over 3 seasons. Ichiro is 10 WAR behind Raines. To match Raines' production he'll have to be at least a 2 win player every year for another 5 years. I don't see that happening, do you?
So you're saying, for 10 ******* seasons, he played the equivalent of 50 games each season?   Did they pay him for that?    

What's his WAR for the 112 games, for 10 ******* seasons, he didn't bother to show up?   NO PARTICIPATION TROPHY FOR THAT ****!!!
8/22/2013 6:36 PM (edited)
No, I'm saying that he appeared on a major league team in parts of 23 seasons totaling the equivalent of about 16 162 game seasons.

I don't see why that's so mind blowing.
8/22/2013 7:05 PM
You guys are making Ichiro sad. The Japanese don't like talking about WAR.


8/22/2013 7:07 PM
I thought there was value in just showing up.     Ichiro averages about 160 a season, Raines averaged about 110.  

What is it?    Does showing up count or not?
8/22/2013 7:20 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 7:07:00 PM (view original):
I thought there was value in just showing up.     Ichiro averages about 160 a season, Raines averaged about 110.  

What is it?    Does showing up count or not?
Raines has played 2500 games and accumulated 69 WAR.
Ichiro has played 2000 games and accumulated 59 WAR.

To match Raines' production, Ichiro will have to accumulate 3 WAR a season for the next three seasons (while playing full time) or 2 WAR a season averaging 100 games a season for 5 seasons. Ichiro hasn't been over 3 WAR since 2010.

He has a shot, but let's not pretend that he has already been more valuable than Raines.
8/22/2013 7:21 PM
Hey, I like players who actually play.   Call me crazy. 
8/22/2013 7:22 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/22/2013 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Hey, I like players who actually play.   Call me crazy. 
Did you see the part about Raines playing more games in his career than Ichiro?
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