All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Ichiro's 3000th Hit - 253 to go! First Ballot HOF!
8/29/2013 1:58 PM
The main issue with BL is that he gets tunnel vision when looking at statistics.  He locks in on something, whether it's FIP or WAR or FRAA or whatever tickles him at a particular moment in time, and ignores all other factors in any discussion.  The number in question becomes an indisputable absolute truth, and nothing will dissuade his thinking.  He can't see the forest because of the trees, and he can't even see the trees because of the leaves.
8/29/2013 2:06 PM
What exactly am I locked in on?

Feel free to make the argument that Mattingly was better in 1985. It will rest on 50ish points of slugging.

My entire point is that the 50 points of slugging is not nearly as valuable as Henderson's 50 point lead in OBP, Henderson's defensive value, and Henderson's base running.

That looks like the opposite of tunnel vision. I'm considering the entire contributions of both players. You're trying to double and triple count SLG and ignore everything else.
8/29/2013 2:21 PM
Can't we just assume "WAR, *************!!!!" and move on?
8/29/2013 2:29 PM
Maybe Mattinglys far superior numbers in RISP and definite advantage in "late and close" ab's swayed voters who actually watched the games.
8/29/2013 2:44 PM (edited)
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2013 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2013 12:50:00 PM (view original):
It's weird that such a stellar CF didn't stay out there for his entire career.
Maybe he hated it. Maybe it did take a lot out of him. Maybe he wasn't that good. But it isn't unreasonable to look at the stats we have for his time as a CF in New York and conclude that he was at least average during those seasons.
here we go again with a guy who loves the merry-go-round, and prefers it as greater in value compared to baseball.

u are not fooling anyone when the sum of all your complex equations equals maybe to the third power in player evaluation skills by the very numbers argued as valuable. do you think that your fishing line has the kind of bait that will endear u to this community of math nerds? nope, as u deem maybe as the master answer translating your numbers, time and time again.

the game equates to being greater in value than the numbers it produces. even without numbers, the game would go on, pitch after pitch. people love the game first and foremost. like rings in a jewelry store. lots of them. this community sees beyond the ring. they see the hardened stone that glistens with brilliance. the adornment that goes with that actual rock is inconsequential to the real value of the diamond. this game of baseball has such simple beauty in daylight, or under floodlight, to so many people, world-wide. value is not whether u have the legs or feet to get u inside that jewelry store, eluding to your dark, blind arguments that rickeys road troubles in the kingdome on a sunday when he begs larussa to dh him, despite going 0-5 with 3 strikeouts in saturdays game. tony asks him why, what's up? rickey says his legs did not feel right back on tuesday in the game in minnesotas metrodome.

ever since the colt 45's came into existence, something unexpected came from the technical design aspect of indoor stadiums. it was of course known that grass would be a problem. pitchers dominance is evidenced in those late 60's numbers. the two most influential pitchers in baseball, one from each league added to something else very evident in baseballs number. nolan ryan and steve carlton and turf added up to the dawn of the 5-man rotation.

if rickey is like everyone else in a batters box, armed only with a stick, against incredible odds, then what do his legs have to do with him winning the BBP award for the better baseball player? all his legs do is un-cork himself from his crouch and stance in that box. the bat is what the batting average is. it is what proliferates the hall of fame numbers, for the ump-teenth time. rickeys legs only get him total bases as a runner, and not as a batter. the defensive positions of OF and IF are the weapons against total bases.

if rickey is in the OF, on turf, for extended games in HHH, or randy johnsons kingdome, then similarly his legs and knees lose effectiveness rapidly. a big exploitable number found when reviewing the actual record. not some number like 8 or 9 that translates to maybe mattingly, maybe trout, maybe not ichiro, but we all can be a community and agree the bats of concepcion and bowa is not what they are being paid for by major league baseball teams that sign them to contracts involving something as valuable as money in any society.

my assessment of bad_luck's redundant arguments is also the sum of maybe he will post patterns that will change, maybe not, or maybe he won't or maybe he will like being off the merry-go-round, maybe not, but, maybe maybe may not maybe be his next bit of brilliance, maybe the candle will burn out, maybe the wick was made in china, maybe the bunny rabbit is better than the horse or dragon on the merry-go-round, maybe not.

the merry-go-round starts and stops in the same place. goes everywhere in baseball too, how maybe wonderful is that? 
8/29/2013 2:37 PM
Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2013 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Maybe Mattinglys far superior numbers in RISP and definite advantage in "late and close" ab's swayed voters who actually watched the games.
How many voters "actually watched" all the games?

Two??? Maybe three?

Beat writers in other cities tend to spend most of their time watching the teams they cover.
8/29/2013 2:40 PM
Ever been in a press box?
8/29/2013 2:42 PM
Not that he wasn't great in late and close situations (though he did lose about 100 points in slugging with RISP). But you don't need to have actually watched the games to know that. Nor would watching every single game clue you in on the fact that Mattingly's OBP was .384 with RISP and .371 over the entire year.
8/29/2013 2:43 PM
Or better yet, do you know any beat writers?
8/29/2013 2:43 PM
Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2013 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Ever been in a press box?
There are tons of people in the press box. But there were only 28 voters for the MVP that year. I'm guessing most weren't NY writers.
8/29/2013 2:43 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2013 2:07:00 PM (view original):
What exactly am I locked in on?

Feel free to make the argument that Mattingly was better in 1985. It will rest on 50ish points of slugging.

My entire point is that the 50 points of slugging is not nearly as valuable as Henderson's 50 point lead in OBP, Henderson's defensive value, and Henderson's base running.

That looks like the opposite of tunnel vision. I'm considering the entire contributions of both players. You're trying to double and triple count SLG and ignore everything else.
Well you certainly seem to be locked in to the idea that Henderson "added value with his glove" because of your inability to apply appropriate context and understanding to certain defensive stats, and a throwaway comment by MikeT, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

Critical thinking isn't part of your skill set.
8/29/2013 2:44 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2013 2:42:00 PM (view original):
Not that he wasn't great in late and close situations (though he did lose about 100 points in slugging with RISP). But you don't need to have actually watched the games to know that. Nor would watching every single game clue you in on the fact that Mattingly's OBP was .384 with RISP and .371 over the entire year.
When you watch games, follow games closely you know which guys are always comin through, and which aren't. RISP was actually a stat that once got much more play.
8/29/2013 2:45 PM
Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2013 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Or better yet, do you know any beat writers?
Actually I do. Well, he's retired now and I haven't talked to him in years. I grew up with a guy whose dad was a writer for the OC Register.
8/29/2013 2:46 PM
Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2013 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Maybe Mattinglys far superior numbers in RISP and definite advantage in "late and close" ab's swayed voters who actually watched the games.
This.

I watched a lot of that season and Mattingly always seemed to come up big when the game was on the line.
He was the definition of clutch. Especially down the stretch.

The writers who voted almost 30 years ago probably saw the same thing most of us did. 
8/29/2013 2:47 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2013 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 8/29/2013 2:40:00 PM (view original):
Ever been in a press box?
There are tons of people in the press box. But there were only 28 voters for the MVP that year. I'm guessing most weren't NY writers.
Plenty if coverage of other games in a press box. You are giving the beat writers less credit than they deserve as well. They know what's going on around the league.
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