All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Ripping off ESPN -> Trout vs Cabrera MVP
10/2/2012 2:06 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/2/2012 1:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/2/2012 1:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/2/2012 1:49:00 PM (view original):
Well, they are pretty close offensively (Trout actually has a higher OPS+) and Trout demolishes Cabrera in value on base and in the field. So...I don't see how Cabrera is even in the discussion.
That's an incredibly stupid statement.
How so? What part do you disagree with?
"I don't see how Cabrera is even in the discussion" is an incredibly stupid statement.

Do you really need me to explain why?
10/2/2012 2:07 PM
I understand how Cabrera is in the discussion. I just think it's dumb. Trout's been better. A lot better.
10/2/2012 2:10 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/2/2012 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Do you disagree that Trout has been significantly better this year?
Do I really need to answer that question?

Have you read any of this thread?
10/2/2012 2:52 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/2/2012 2:07:00 PM (view original):
I understand how Cabrera is in the discussion. I just think it's dumb. Trout's been better. A lot better.
Then why did you say that you couldn't see how he was in the discussion?  Hyperbole?
10/2/2012 3:33 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/2/2012 1:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/2/2012 1:34:00 PM (view original):
No out is productive. Some outs are slightly less ****** than other outs.
I think it was Baltimore about 3 days ago.

Bunt moved runners to 2nd/3rd.   Next batter tied the game with a single.   Baltimore won in extra innings.

****** out?
According to a Win Expectancy chart from Tango Tiger, a sacrifice increases win probability in certain circumstances. For example, with runners on 1st and second, no outs, and the home team down by one in the bottom of the ninth, a sacrifice that moved both runners over would increase that team's probability from .517 to .540.

It's easy to pick out a game in which a sacrifice worked, since they do happen. The sacrifice is still almost always a poor decision. But even statgeekery supports it in the right situations.

Enjoy digging out more examples:

tangotiger.net/welist.html
10/2/2012 3:49 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 10/2/2012 2:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/2/2012 2:07:00 PM (view original):
I understand how Cabrera is in the discussion. I just think it's dumb. Trout's been better. A lot better.
Then why did you say that you couldn't see how he was in the discussion?  Hyperbole?
Sure. Either way, Trout has been significantly better this year. It shouldn't be close.
10/2/2012 3:50 PM
Then there shouldn't be a discussion.

Yet, shockingly, there is.    One was even started by you. 

Thus my "you obviously don't understand baseball" comment.
10/2/2012 3:52 PM
So are you arguing that Cabrera has been better?
10/2/2012 3:54 PM
I've stated, several times, that I'd vote for Cabrera.
10/2/2012 3:55 PM
A few questions to consider:

Is it fair to give Cabrera an edge because his team is going to the playoffs? The Angels had a better record while playing a stronger schedule.

What if Cabrera misses the Triple Crown? Will it play a significant factor?

Is rarity a factor here? What if the last Triple Crown had been only 10 years ago?

There has by no means been a full embrace of sabermetrics, but things are changing. How will this increase Trout's chances?

Just food for thought.
10/2/2012 4:01 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/2/2012 3:54:00 PM (view original):
I've stated, several times, that I'd vote for Cabrera.
I know you'd vote for him, but do you think he had the better year? (Excluding team/playoff factors)
10/2/2012 4:01 PM
It's definitely coming down to an "old school / new school" debate when it comes to evaulating stats and value.
10/2/2012 4:04 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 10/2/2012 4:01:00 PM (view original):
It's definitely coming down to an "old school / new school" debate when it comes to evaulating stats and value.
Which is funny, because it seems like things like base running and defense are old school type qualities that tend to be valued by the stats don't tell you everything crowd. Strange that the old school is now coming down against Trout.
10/2/2012 4:08 PM
I can't really exclude that when comparing two players who had very good years. 

If WAR is your stat of choice, why is it between Cabrera/Trout?
If RC is your stat of choice, why aren't you touting Cabrera?
ADJ batting wins, Cabrera?

I could go on but I hope you get my point by now.    There are plenty of stats to look at and you can use them to make a case for any number of players.   So it kind of goes back to what I said earlier "Who would I want on my ******* team this year?" or, conversely, "Who would I NOT want to face in a big situation?"    And it comes back to Cabrera.    That's not to say anyone who thinks Trout is MVP is a moron.  They aren't.   But to say "head and shoulders" is moronic.    It's not that easy.
10/2/2012 4:11 PM
Honestly, I think I had a similar argument about Papi v. Manny(not MVP but who was the better hitter).    I didn't really care what stat was thrown out, I always felt Manny was better and it was based, in part, about who I didn't want at the plate.     I know you don't like it but I'd rather face the guy who whiffs more frequently in most situations.    That guy is less valuable, IMO.
of 42
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Ripping off ESPN -> Trout vs Cabrera MVP

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.