All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Ripping off ESPN -> Trout vs Cabrera MVP
10/5/2012 2:29 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:27:00 PM (view original):
I really wish I could remember the thread where JRDX kept going on about the only pitching stats that matter are K/BB/HR.    Because that's what I'm getting here except it's with WAR.
You're the one who keeps going back to WAR. My point throughout this entire thread is that even by other measures Trout was the better/more valuable player.
10/5/2012 2:30 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:22:00 PM (view original):
I don't, but, for the sake of comparing Trout and Cabrera, it really doesn't matter, since they both get the same adjustment.
Yeah, it sort of does.   You know, if you want the validity of the formula to mean anything.

As your 5th grade algebra teacher said "Show your work."
But it's not my work. The defensive stats might not be perfect but they're pretty widely accepted across baseball as good measuring sticks.
So are putouts, assists, fielding percentage and errors. 
10/5/2012 2:31 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:27:00 PM (view original):
I really wish I could remember the thread where JRDX kept going on about the only pitching stats that matter are K/BB/HR.    Because that's what I'm getting here except it's with WAR.
You're the one who keeps going back to WAR. My point throughout this entire thread is that even by other measures Trout was the better/more valuable player.
10/5/2012 2:33 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:22:00 PM (view original):
I don't, but, for the sake of comparing Trout and Cabrera, it really doesn't matter, since they both get the same adjustment.
Yeah, it sort of does.   You know, if you want the validity of the formula to mean anything.

As your 5th grade algebra teacher said "Show your work."
But it's not my work. The defensive stats might not be perfect but they're pretty widely accepted across baseball as good measuring sticks.
So are putouts, assists, fielding percentage and errors. 
Not really.  Fielding percentage and errors (essentially the same stat) aren't widely used in defensive evaluation anymore. And putouts need context.
10/5/2012 2:51 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:27:00 PM (view original):
I really wish I could remember the thread where JRDX kept going on about the only pitching stats that matter are K/BB/HR.    Because that's what I'm getting here except it's with WAR.
Here you go.  A link to the post in that thread where jrd_x started proclaiming FIP as the "God Stat" for pitchers.

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?ForumID=1&TopicID=451321&ThreadID=9776250#l_9776250
10/5/2012 2:54 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:22:00 PM (view original):
I don't, but, for the sake of comparing Trout and Cabrera, it really doesn't matter, since they both get the same adjustment.
Yeah, it sort of does.   You know, if you want the validity of the formula to mean anything.

As your 5th grade algebra teacher said "Show your work."
But it's not my work. The defensive stats might not be perfect but they're pretty widely accepted across baseball as good measuring sticks.
So are putouts, assists, fielding percentage and errors. 
Not really.  Fielding percentage and errors (essentially the same stat) aren't widely used in defensive evaluation anymore. And putouts need context.
They DO matter.  A lot.

That said, if you put a garbage can in left field, it's going to catch some balls, and it won't make errors, either.  Doesn't make it a great LF. Range matters.
 
10/5/2012 2:59 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/5/2012 1:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 12:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/5/2012 11:08:00 AM (view original):
How successful are ****** teams?
How successful are teams that don't make the playoffs?

Which team had a more successful regular season:

Team A: 95-66

or

Team B: 82-79

?

I guess it depends on your definition of success.

If I make $100 and die from starvation in a pile of urine on the street, I don't think that's very successful.

If I make $5 and eat a Happy Meal in the warmth of Hardee's without stinking of urine, that's more successful.

What do think?
My definition of success with respect to sports is "wins games".

Teams really have no influence over the 143 games their division mates play against other teams on their schedules, so the success of other teams should have no bearing on the success of your own team.  Can you only influence the games you play in.
10/5/2012 3:02 PM
tec thinks the Packers were more successful than the Giants last year?
10/5/2012 3:12 PM
Regular season, they were.

Playoff performance is not supposed to have any bearing on MVP voting.  It's right in the BBWAA rules.
10/5/2012 3:24 PM
That has nothing to do with "successful". 

What is the objective of MLB teams?   I sort of see it like this:   Win WS - Make WS - make playoffs - win regular season games - don't die in plane crash
10/5/2012 3:25 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/5/2012 2:22:00 PM (view original):
I don't, but, for the sake of comparing Trout and Cabrera, it really doesn't matter, since they both get the same adjustment.
Yeah, it sort of does.   You know, if you want the validity of the formula to mean anything.

As your 5th grade algebra teacher said "Show your work."
But it's not my work. The defensive stats might not be perfect but they're pretty widely accepted across baseball as good measuring sticks.
So are putouts, assists, fielding percentage and errors. 
Not really.  Fielding percentage and errors (essentially the same stat) aren't widely used in defensive evaluation anymore. And putouts need context.
UZR means nothing.   I can add U to my username.   UMikeT23.   I guess I'm the Ultimate MikeT23.   Sweet. 
10/5/2012 3:33 PM
Right.  But if the Tigers win the World Series this year, Cabrera's value as a Tiger, helping them reach the playoffs, which leads them to winning the WS, makes him even more valuable to the Tigers than Trout to the Angels.  I know you don't look at the postseason when voting for the MVP, but the Angels cannot possibly win a WS.  Trout is not as valuable to the Angels as Cabrera was to the Tigers.  What the records of the 2 teams are, is irrelevant.
10/5/2012 3:58 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 3:24:00 PM (view original):
That has nothing to do with "successful". 

What is the objective of MLB teams?   I sort of see it like this:   Win WS - Make WS - make playoffs - win regular season games - don't die in plane crash
We're still focusing on team goals. This is an individual award. The Tigers made the playoffs but with a record worse than the Angels (and 5 other AL teams). Did Cabrera do something for the Tigers that Trout didn't do for the Angels? Absolutely not. Bother players were awesome. But Trout was better and that the Angels didn't make the playoffs and the Tigers did has everything to do with division alignment and not the individual performances of either player.
10/5/2012 3:59 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 10/5/2012 2:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 2:27:00 PM (view original):
I really wish I could remember the thread where JRDX kept going on about the only pitching stats that matter are K/BB/HR.    Because that's what I'm getting here except it's with WAR.
Here you go.  A link to the post in that thread where jrd_x started proclaiming FIP as the "God Stat" for pitchers.

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?ForumID=1&TopicID=451321&ThreadID=9776250#l_9776250
Was somebody arguing that Catfish Hunter was better than Steve Carlton?
10/5/2012 4:05 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/5/2012 3:24:00 PM (view original):
That has nothing to do with "successful". 

What is the objective of MLB teams?   I sort of see it like this:   Win WS - Make WS - make playoffs - win regular season games - don't die in plane crash
The only thing you can control is what you do in your own games.

If you win 103 games, that's generally regarded as a damn good season.

Do you think the 1993 San Francisco Giants regarded their '93 season as an unmitigated failure?  How much control did they have over Atlanta going 97-52 in the 149 games the Braves played against the rest of the NL?
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