All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Wins and Losses
12/6/2012 2:53 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 2:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:18:00 PM (view original):
"I'll try it this way, given all the tools we have to evaluate pitchers, W/L record is the least useful and should be ignored."

Do you realize that if you had reworded that statement as follows, this thread would have died 18 pages ago?

"I'll try it this way, given all the tools we have to evaluate pitchers, W/L record is the least useful and should be regarded with low weight."
It should be ignored.

You forgot to add "because I said so".

What I should have said: the stat is already ignored by anyone with an IQ over 17.
The NL Cy Young Award voters are upset with you.

And for that matter, the AL Cy Young Award voters probably are, too.
12/6/2012 2:54 PM

I don't think bad_luck has ever actually watched a sporting event in his life.  His understanding of sports is derived from boxscores and a calculator after the fact.

If he sees a guy go 0-4 in the boxscore, he'll conclude that he had a crappy game, not realizing that the guy hit four lasers that just happened to be hit right at somebody.  Meanwhile, the guy who went 3-4 because of an infield dribbler and two Texas Leaguers was just awesome and added to his WAR.

12/6/2012 2:57 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2012 2:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 2:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:18:00 PM (view original):
"I'll try it this way, given all the tools we have to evaluate pitchers, W/L record is the least useful and should be ignored."

Do you realize that if you had reworded that statement as follows, this thread would have died 18 pages ago?

"I'll try it this way, given all the tools we have to evaluate pitchers, W/L record is the least useful and should be regarded with low weight."
It should be ignored.

You forgot to add "because I said so".

What I should have said: the stat is already ignored by anyone with an IQ over 17.
The NL Cy Young Award voters are upset with you.

And for that matter, the AL Cy Young Award voters probably are, too.
I doubt it, their low IQ's make it hard for them operate a computer, log on to the internet, read...they'll never see this.
12/6/2012 2:58 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:55:00 PM (view original):

I don't think bad_luck has ever actually watched a sporting event in his life.  His understanding of sports is derived from boxscores and a calculator after the fact.

If he sees a guy go 0-4 in the boxscore, he'll conclude that he had a crappy game, not realizing that the guy hit four lasers that just happened to be hit right at somebody.  Meanwhile, the guy who went 3-4 because of an infield dribbler and two Texas Leaguers was just awesome and added to his WAR.

Determined on page 3.   Of the Cabrera/Trout thread.
12/6/2012 2:58 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2012 2:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 2:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:18:00 PM (view original):
"I'll try it this way, given all the tools we have to evaluate pitchers, W/L record is the least useful and should be ignored."

Do you realize that if you had reworded that statement as follows, this thread would have died 18 pages ago?

"I'll try it this way, given all the tools we have to evaluate pitchers, W/L record is the least useful and should be regarded with low weight."
It should be ignored.

You forgot to add "because I said so".

What I should have said: the stat is already ignored by anyone with an IQ over 17.
The NL Cy Young Award voters are upset with you.

And for that matter, the AL Cy Young Award voters probably are, too.
I doubt it, their low IQ's make it hard for them operate a computer, log on to the internet, read...they'll never see this.
You might be right.  They're watching baseball instead.
12/6/2012 3:04 PM
Once more, and then I'm probably done unless something new arises.

If I see a pitcher who is 250-180 for their career, I will say that he's probably better than the pitcher who is 220-210.  I feel this information is somewhat useful, and I don't think it's because I'm "completely retarded," "brain dead" or "have an IQ less than 17."
12/6/2012 3:08 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:55:00 PM (view original):

I don't think bad_luck has ever actually watched a sporting event in his life.  His understanding of sports is derived from boxscores and a calculator after the fact.

If he sees a guy go 0-4 in the boxscore, he'll conclude that he had a crappy game, not realizing that the guy hit four lasers that just happened to be hit right at somebody.  Meanwhile, the guy who went 3-4 because of an infield dribbler and two Texas Leaguers was just awesome and added to his WAR.

Wow, that's so relevant. I love how a pitcher gets a "win" as long as he pitches 5 innings, leaves with the lead, and the bullpen doesn't blow it. I don't even have to watch the game. I can tell by seeing the "W" that that pitcher pitched well and contributed heavily to the team's success. He didn't give up 6 earned runs in 5 innings, he didn't walk 9 guys in 5 and a third, and he definitely didn't get a no decision, throwing ten innings of shutout ball, striking out 7.

You're right. W/L is soooooooooo useful for telling us what actually happened on the field. Abolish stats! We don't need them. We watch games and know what happened because the W/L stat tells us so.
12/6/2012 3:09 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2012 3:04:00 PM (view original):
Once more, and then I'm probably done unless something new arises.

If I see a pitcher who is 250-180 for their career, I will say that he's probably better than the pitcher who is 220-210.  I feel this information is somewhat useful, and I don't think it's because I'm "completely retarded," "brain dead" or "have an IQ less than 17."
But those three things are still true, right?
12/6/2012 3:10 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2012 2:32:00 PM (view original):
Anyway, the HOF is full of pitchers who won a lot of games.  They didn't do that by being ineffective.   Only a complete and utter tool would deny that simple fact.

Any complete and utter tools in attendance?
This.
12/6/2012 3:10 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 3:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:55:00 PM (view original):

I don't think bad_luck has ever actually watched a sporting event in his life.  His understanding of sports is derived from boxscores and a calculator after the fact.

If he sees a guy go 0-4 in the boxscore, he'll conclude that he had a crappy game, not realizing that the guy hit four lasers that just happened to be hit right at somebody.  Meanwhile, the guy who went 3-4 because of an infield dribbler and two Texas Leaguers was just awesome and added to his WAR.

Wow, that's so relevant. I love how a pitcher gets a "win" as long as he pitches 5 innings, leaves with the lead, and the bullpen doesn't blow it. I don't even have to watch the game. I can tell by seeing the "W" that that pitcher pitched well and contributed heavily to the team's success. He didn't give up 6 earned runs in 5 innings, he didn't walk 9 guys in 5 and a third, and he definitely didn't get a no decision, throwing ten innings of shutout ball, striking out 7.

You're right. W/L is soooooooooo useful for telling us what actually happened on the field. Abolish stats! We don't need them. We watch games and know what happened because the W/L stat tells us so.
A guy has a WHIP of 1.00.  Is he a good pitcher?
12/6/2012 3:14 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 3:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2012 3:04:00 PM (view original):
Once more, and then I'm probably done unless something new arises.

If I see a pitcher who is 250-180 for their career, I will say that he's probably better than the pitcher who is 220-210.  I feel this information is somewhat useful, and I don't think it's because I'm "completely retarded," "brain dead" or "have an IQ less than 17."
But those three things are still true, right?
Well, yea, of course.  
12/6/2012 3:16 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 3:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:55:00 PM (view original):

I don't think bad_luck has ever actually watched a sporting event in his life.  His understanding of sports is derived from boxscores and a calculator after the fact.

If he sees a guy go 0-4 in the boxscore, he'll conclude that he had a crappy game, not realizing that the guy hit four lasers that just happened to be hit right at somebody.  Meanwhile, the guy who went 3-4 because of an infield dribbler and two Texas Leaguers was just awesome and added to his WAR.

Wow, that's so relevant. I love how a pitcher gets a "win" as long as he pitches 5 innings, leaves with the lead, and the bullpen doesn't blow it. I don't even have to watch the game. I can tell by seeing the "W" that that pitcher pitched well and contributed heavily to the team's success. He didn't give up 6 earned runs in 5 innings, he didn't walk 9 guys in 5 and a third, and he definitely didn't get a no decision, throwing ten innings of shutout ball, striking out 7.

You're right. W/L is soooooooooo useful for telling us what actually happened on the field. Abolish stats! We don't need them. We watch games and know what happened because the W/L stat tells us so.
I love how a pitcher has a "great" ERA as long as he only allows 1 run in 6 innings, even though he walked 4 guys and allowed 7 hits, got 1 strikeout and got 5 outs to fly balls to the warning track. I don't even have to watch the game.  I can tell by the 1.50 ERA that he pitched well and contributed heavily to the team's success.

See, you can act silly with a lot of stats.
12/6/2012 3:22 PM
12/6/2012 3:27 PM
CC Sabathia put up a nice 1.59 ERA in this gem.  Well done!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN201206240.shtml
12/6/2012 3:35 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2012 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2012 3:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2012 2:55:00 PM (view original):

I don't think bad_luck has ever actually watched a sporting event in his life.  His understanding of sports is derived from boxscores and a calculator after the fact.

If he sees a guy go 0-4 in the boxscore, he'll conclude that he had a crappy game, not realizing that the guy hit four lasers that just happened to be hit right at somebody.  Meanwhile, the guy who went 3-4 because of an infield dribbler and two Texas Leaguers was just awesome and added to his WAR.

Wow, that's so relevant. I love how a pitcher gets a "win" as long as he pitches 5 innings, leaves with the lead, and the bullpen doesn't blow it. I don't even have to watch the game. I can tell by seeing the "W" that that pitcher pitched well and contributed heavily to the team's success. He didn't give up 6 earned runs in 5 innings, he didn't walk 9 guys in 5 and a third, and he definitely didn't get a no decision, throwing ten innings of shutout ball, striking out 7.

You're right. W/L is soooooooooo useful for telling us what actually happened on the field. Abolish stats! We don't need them. We watch games and know what happened because the W/L stat tells us so.
I love how a pitcher has a "great" ERA as long as he only allows 1 run in 6 innings, even though he walked 4 guys and allowed 7 hits, got 1 strikeout and got 5 outs to fly balls to the warning track. I don't even have to watch the game.  I can tell by the 1.50 ERA that he pitched well and contributed heavily to the team's success.

See, you can act silly with a lot of stats.
I know you're not arguing that wins are the only stat we should look at. Just like I'm not arguing that ERA (or any other stat) is the only one we should look at. But you have yet to show where there is value in knowing the W/L record in addition to everything else. What info does it give you that you need to know and don't get better from something else?
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