Cabrera won MVP Topic

Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:18:00 PM (view original):
In this example, very little, if any.  If Jim gave that $50 to someone else (a different team), and they hit their goal, he'd be very valuable.  He'd be very valuable to that team.  His "actual value" in your terms, do not change.  His "actual value to his team" depends what team he is on.
I'm not asking you if his donation was very valuable. I'm asking for the actual value of the donation. The number.
11/20/2013 4:27 PM
Are you still pretending that you weren't extolling the beauty of FIP last year?
11/20/2013 4:28 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/20/2013 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Are you still pretending that you weren't extolling the beauty of FIP last year?
I've never pushed FIP.
11/20/2013 4:29 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:18:00 PM (view original):
In this example, very little, if any.  If Jim gave that $50 to someone else (a different team), and they hit their goal, he'd be very valuable.  He'd be very valuable to that team.  His "actual value" in your terms, do not change.  His "actual value to his team" depends what team he is on.
I'm not asking you if his donation was very valuable. I'm asking for the actual value of the donation. The number.
You're asking me to repeat the number 50?
11/20/2013 4:39 PM
As an aside - we've confused BL with someone else when it comes to that FIP argument.  Someone else with an underscore.  
11/20/2013 4:41 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:18:00 PM (view original):
In this example, very little, if any.  If Jim gave that $50 to someone else (a different team), and they hit their goal, he'd be very valuable.  He'd be very valuable to that team.  His "actual value" in your terms, do not change.  His "actual value to his team" depends what team he is on.
I'm not asking you if his donation was very valuable. I'm asking for the actual value of the donation. The number.
You're asking me to repeat the number 50?
His donation was worth $50 to you. Whether or not you made your goal. The other donation to you was worth $25 dollars to you, whether or not you made your goal.

If someone else received a bunch of $10 dollar donations and made their goal, $10 would still be less valuable than $50.

 
11/20/2013 4:44 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 3:50:00 PM (view original):
You're right, the actual value to his team doesn't change.  How could it change?
Going back to your donation analogy:

Jim gives you $50.
Tom gives you $25.

You don't hit your goal. What was the value of Jim's donation to you?

 
And you didn't ask for the number.  You asked what his value was to me.
11/20/2013 4:44 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:18:00 PM (view original):
In this example, very little, if any.  If Jim gave that $50 to someone else (a different team), and they hit their goal, he'd be very valuable.  He'd be very valuable to that team.  His "actual value" in your terms, do not change.  His "actual value to his team" depends what team he is on.
I'm not asking you if his donation was very valuable. I'm asking for the actual value of the donation. The number.
You're asking me to repeat the number 50?
His donation was worth $50 to you. Whether or not you made your goal. The other donation to you was worth $25 dollars to you, whether or not you made your goal.

If someone else received a bunch of $10 dollar donations and made their goal, $10 would still be less valuable than $50.

 
Valuable to who? For something to be valued, there needs to be someone who values it.  If we all died tomorrow, all the money in the world has no value.
11/20/2013 4:45 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 3:50:00 PM (view original):
You're right, the actual value to his team doesn't change.  How could it change?
Going back to your donation analogy:

Jim gives you $50.
Tom gives you $25.

You don't hit your goal. What was the value of Jim's donation to you?

 
And you didn't ask for the number.  You asked what his value was to me.
How else would you evaluate the donation?
11/20/2013 4:46 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:18:00 PM (view original):
In this example, very little, if any.  If Jim gave that $50 to someone else (a different team), and they hit their goal, he'd be very valuable.  He'd be very valuable to that team.  His "actual value" in your terms, do not change.  His "actual value to his team" depends what team he is on.
I'm not asking you if his donation was very valuable. I'm asking for the actual value of the donation. The number.
You're asking me to repeat the number 50?
His donation was worth $50 to you. Whether or not you made your goal. The other donation to you was worth $25 dollars to you, whether or not you made your goal.

If someone else received a bunch of $10 dollar donations and made their goal, $10 would still be less valuable than $50.

 
Valuable to who? For something to be valued, there needs to be someone who values it.  If we all died tomorrow, all the money in the world has no value.
Valuable to you. Not hitting your goal doesn't devalue the donations you received. You were trying to hit your goal. You received a $50 donation. That donation is always worth $50 to you, goal or no goal.
11/20/2013 4:47 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/20/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 3:50:00 PM (view original):
You're right, the actual value to his team doesn't change.  How could it change?
Going back to your donation analogy:

Jim gives you $50.
Tom gives you $25.

You don't hit your goal. What was the value of Jim's donation to you?

 
And you didn't ask for the number.  You asked what his value was to me.
How else would you evaluate the donation?
I told you, it has little value to me.  We've been over this.
11/20/2013 4:48 PM
The donation is worth $50.  In this instance, it is valued more by someone who can use it more than someone who can't.
11/20/2013 4:49 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 11/20/2013 4:41:00 PM (view original):
As an aside - we've confused BL with someone else when it comes to that FIP argument.  Someone else with an underscore.  
Not really.   JRDX or something.  Same guy.  FIP just got **** on so bad that he abandoned that one. 
11/20/2013 4:53 PM
The donation is worth $50.
Mike Trout's WAR was 10.

The $50 does not help me reach my goal. It has little value to me.
Mike Trout's WAR of 10 does not help the Angels reach their goal of making the playoffs.  He does not have that much value to them.

The $50 would help Joe, who missed his goal by $10.  The $50 would have been significantly more valuable to Joe than it was to me.
Mike Trout's WAR of 10 would have helped the Texas Rangers, who just missed the playoffs.  He would have been significantly more valuable to the Rangers than he was to the Angels.

"Actual value to the team." to the team. to the team. to the team.
11/20/2013 4:54 PM
The $50 is still worth $50.  Just like Trout's 10 WAR is still worth 10 WAR.
11/20/2013 4:56 PM
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Cabrera won MVP Topic

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