All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Disturbing comments from Cooperstown President.
12/1/2013 7:02 PM
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 6:40:00 PM (view original):
So why do you think the greatest offensive years occurred during the roid era?  If greenies gave greater benefits, shouldn't the greatest offensive seasons been in the 50's, 60's and 70's?
Do you know how big ballparks were in the "old" days?
12/1/2013 7:12 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/1/2013 6:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/1/2013 6:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 5:37:00 PM (view original):
If pitchers weren't roiding, the average ERA probably would have been over 5.
I think you're giving way too much credit to roids. A quick glance at the list of players (both major and minor leaguers) who have been caught reveals a lot of ****** players. Apparently they weren't taking their steroids the right way.
Most of those guys are the ones who have the most to gain.  A difference between a short-lived career of making $50k a year, or a moderate length career making $1.5m a year as a MLB journeyman is quite significant.
Which explains *why* they took steroids. It doesn't prove that steroids were very effective. If steroids were so effective that they caused offense to flourish, it makes no sense that most of those players barely got a cup of coffee.
12/1/2013 7:15 PM
So now that offensive numbers are shrinking back down towards historical norms, are the parks suddenly growing larger again?
12/1/2013 7:15 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/1/2013 7:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/1/2013 6:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/1/2013 6:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 5:37:00 PM (view original):
If pitchers weren't roiding, the average ERA probably would have been over 5.
I think you're giving way too much credit to roids. A quick glance at the list of players (both major and minor leaguers) who have been caught reveals a lot of ****** players. Apparently they weren't taking their steroids the right way.
Most of those guys are the ones who have the most to gain.  A difference between a short-lived career of making $50k a year, or a moderate length career making $1.5m a year as a MLB journeyman is quite significant.
Which explains *why* they took steroids. It doesn't prove that steroids were very effective. If steroids were so effective that they caused offense to flourish, it makes no sense that most of those players barely got a cup of coffee.
Maybe they don't make It out of AA if they don't roid.
12/1/2013 7:17 PM
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 7:15:00 PM (view original):
So now that offensive numbers are shrinking back down towards historical norms, are the parks suddenly growing larger again?
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/home-run-rates-in-1998-and-2012/

HR rates in 2012 were actually higher than 1998.
12/1/2013 7:18 PM
This too:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-few-different-ways-to-look-at-the-steroid-era-graphically/
12/1/2013 7:19 PM
The steroid "Mount Rushmore" is probably Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and Palmeiro. 

Clemens and Bonds were killing it before the 'roids.

Palmeiro was a .300 hitter before his power explosion.   McGwire averaged about 35 HR his first 6 seasons.

All 4 were pretty damn good before any "help".   How much was Mantle, Mays and Aaron helped by the energy boost?
12/1/2013 7:20 PM
Not according to baseball reference.
12/1/2013 7:20 PM
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 7:15:00 PM (view original):
So now that offensive numbers are shrinking back down towards historical norms, are the parks suddenly growing larger again?
So you're agreeing that park in the 50s/60s/70s were huge?

Why was the mound lowered?
12/1/2013 7:29 PM
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 7:20:00 PM (view original):
Not according to baseball reference.
HR per ball in play is all that really matters. Unless you're arguing that steroids allowed players to make contact more often, not hit the ball farther.

And we're still ignoring the fact that pitchers took steroids too.

My opinion is that steroids allow(ed) guys to recover faster and work out harder. But they didn't improve actual on field performance by a measurable amount.
12/1/2013 7:42 PM

I'm pretty sure 'roids did make better players.  Not nearly as much as some claim but being stronger is good.  However, being energetic and focused is also good.  Amphetimines allow that.    There's a reason they're illegal.

12/1/2013 8:53 PM
Because the government doesn't want people energetic and focused?
12/1/2013 10:29 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/1/2013 7:19:00 PM (view original):
The steroid "Mount Rushmore" is probably Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and Palmeiro. 

Clemens and Bonds were killing it before the 'roids.

Palmeiro was a .300 hitter before his power explosion.   McGwire averaged about 35 HR his first 6 seasons.

All 4 were pretty damn good before any "help".   How much was Mantle, Mays and Aaron helped by the energy boost?
I would swap Palmeiro for Canseco. He is the original roider and when his book came out, everybody thought he was just writing it for money but it seems pretty accurate to me. Pudge Rodriguez, Juan Gonzalez, and Rafael Palmeiro all took off once Canseco got to Texas in 1992. I have a feeling Canseco had something to do with Shawn Green & Carlos Delgado's immediate success in Toronto...:P
12/2/2013 6:23 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 12/1/2013 8:53:00 PM (view original):
Because the government doesn't want people energetic and focused?
Not chemically enhanced.
12/2/2013 9:33 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2013 6:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 12/1/2013 8:53:00 PM (view original):
Because the government doesn't want people energetic and focused?
Not chemically enhanced.
Unless you have a prescription. Or coffee.
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