All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Bernie or Edgar?
12/6/2013 11:32 AM
I've been playing the "EM was excellent at drawing walks" game since page 1 or 2.   THAT was his superior skill over BW.  
12/6/2013 11:33 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 11:29:00 AM (view original):
BL it's not important, only, like, 8 of those guys are great hitters.
GREAT response.   Top 12586 of all-time!!!!

12/6/2013 11:34 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I've been playing the "EM was excellent at drawing walks" game since page 1 or 2.   THAT was his superior skill over BW.  
That and he crushes the ball when he doesn't walk.  So he's got a great eye and when he gets strikes, he's a much better hitter than Bernie.
12/6/2013 11:35 AM
Edgar's best 9 seasons:

BA OBP SLG OPS+
0.356 0.479 0.628 185
0.327 0.464 0.595 167
0.330 0.456 0.554 165
0.343 0.404 0.544 164
0.306 0.423 0.543 160
0.322 0.429 0.565 158
0.324 0.423 0.579 158
0.372 0.413 0.581 155
0.337 0.447 0.554 152


Bernie's best 9 seasons:

BA OBP SLG OPS+
0.339 0.422 0.575 160
0.342 0.435 0.536 149
0.328 0.408 0.544 147
0.333 0.415 0.493 141
0.307 0.391 0.566 140
0.307 0.395 0.522 139
0.305 0.391 0.535 131
0.307 0.392 0.487 129
0.289 0.384 0.453 120


Bernie's third best season ever by OPS+ was what Martinez averaged over his entire career.

The gap is huge. Massive.

12/6/2013 11:36 AM
Martinez's ninth best season was better than all of Bernie's seasons except for one.
12/6/2013 11:43 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I've been playing the "EM was excellent at drawing walks" game since page 1 or 2.   THAT was his superior skill over BW.  
That and he crushes the ball when he doesn't walk.  So he's got a great eye and when he gets strikes, he's a much better hitter than Bernie.
You mean except for the 16.7% of the time when he was swinging and missing?  A little more than once every 6 AB?
12/6/2013 11:50 AM
An out's an out. And Bernie made a lot more of them than Edgar.
12/6/2013 11:51 AM
Edgar's ninth best season was better than all but one of Bernie's seasons.
12/6/2013 11:55 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 11:43:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 11:34:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I've been playing the "EM was excellent at drawing walks" game since page 1 or 2.   THAT was his superior skill over BW.  
That and he crushes the ball when he doesn't walk.  So he's got a great eye and when he gets strikes, he's a much better hitter than Bernie.
You mean except for the 16.7% of the time when he was swinging and missing?  A little more than once every 6 AB?
Yes. Take away the 1 of every 6 atbats where EM strikes out, and the slightly less than 1 of every 6 atbats Bernie strikes out, and Edgar is a significantly better hitter.
12/6/2013 7:20 PM (edited)
As I read through this argument for the first time, I keep seeing Mike referring to a statement like the following:

"As I said earlier, when EM was walking with Griffey, A-Rod and Buhner in the line-up, it was probably a good idea. When he was walking with O'Brien, Reynolds and Davis in the line-up, he wasn't helping the team."

Mike, I know your not a Mariner fan, but you should probably look it up, or think back a little harder before you continually try to use it as part of your argument.

Edgar's first time with any type of significant playing time was 1989 and his first "full-time" starter year was 1990; he played with Seattle until he retired in after 2004
Griffey's rookie season was 1989; he played with Seattle through 1999
Buhner was with Seattle from 1989 until he retired after 2001
Rodriguez was with the Mariners from 1994 through 2000
Alvin Davis was with the M's from his rookie year in '84 through '91 and was no schlub hitter (career .830 OPS and 127 OPS+, although his 1991 year with the M's wasn't so good)
Pete O'Brien was with the M's from 90-93 with only one full-time season (he was essentially a replacement level player)
Harold Reynolds was with Seattle form '83 -'92... but he played 2B... what 2B was going to provide any reason for Edgar to hit differently from 89-92?
In the 2 years that Edgar played with Davis and Reynolds with no Griffey and Buhner, he had a grand total of 6 walks.  Alvin Davis had an .886 and .875 OPS in those years (127 & 141 OPS+)
Pre-A-Rod, Edgar's walk rate only exceeded ANY YEAR in which he played with A-Rod (along with Buhner & Griffey, - Griffey in 2000) once, and that season (1993) was his 4th highest walk-rate, not highest.
12/6/2013 4:32 PM
Edgar
12/6/2013 7:21 PM
Edgar; I am definitely biased, but I don't think this is very close (after looking at Bernie's stats, both hitting & fielding)
12/6/2013 8:56 PM
Edgar
12/6/2013 9:25 PM
I loved Edgar, but if you can't wear a glove, I got a real problem with you.
If all you can do it hit, you better hit like Barry Bonds.
12/6/2013 9:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LWYQwDgICug

Edgar had the best right-handed swing I've ever seen. I loved his approach in the box.
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