All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > 2015 baseball HOF ballot.
2/12/2014 1:48 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:22:00 PM (view original):
BTW, I disagree with the argument of "he struck out a lot." but that's sort of irrelevant.
We should probably look up how many times Mickey Mantle struck out. And Arod. And Mike Schmidt. And Ken Griffey. And Manny Ramirez. And Derek Jeter.


Would you care to quote the post where I said "-insert name- did NOT strike out a lot"?     Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit you're making **** up again?
"A lot" is a relative term. You said he struck out "a lot."

Looking at other elite hitters, that's clearly false.

His K rate was 13.9%. That's 251st highest among hitters with at least 5000 plate appearances. Not "a lot" of strikeouts.
Once every 7 AB seems like "a lot" to me. 
It's not.
I disagree.   Seems like "a lot" can have more than one definition.    35 pages of what "a lot" means?   I've got some time today.
2/12/2014 1:49 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:22:00 PM (view original):
BTW, I disagree with the argument of "he struck out a lot." but that's sort of irrelevant.
We should probably look up how many times Mickey Mantle struck out. And Arod. And Mike Schmidt. And Ken Griffey. And Manny Ramirez. And Derek Jeter.


Would you care to quote the post where I said "-insert name- did NOT strike out a lot"?     Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit you're making **** up again?
"A lot" is a relative term. You said he struck out "a lot."

Looking at other elite hitters, that's clearly false.

His K rate was 13.9%. That's 251st highest among hitters with at least 5000 plate appearances. Not "a lot" of strikeouts.
Once every 7 AB seems like "a lot" to me. 
It's not.
Mantle struck out once every 6 PA.
Mays struck out once every 8 PA
2/12/2014 1:50 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:39:00 PM (view original):
For ****'s sake, you're like a child begging for someone to compliment his crayon drawing that's hanging on the fridge.

Would you like to quote the post where I said "Getting on base is a bad thing.  Worse than making an out"?   Should I wait here or do you just want to admit you're making **** up again?

That's why I haven't responded to your oft-asked question.    Now get your crayons and draw another pic for the fridge.
Just to confirm, you think Martinez's high OBP was a good thing. Yes or no?
Your tenacity is only matched by your density and stupidity.    Stop asking stupid questions and I'll answer them. 

So are you looking for the "Getting on base is a bad thing.  Worse than making an out" post?   I'm dying to see it.  
2/12/2014 1:51 PM
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
2/12/2014 1:51 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:22:00 PM (view original):
BTW, I disagree with the argument of "he struck out a lot." but that's sort of irrelevant.
We should probably look up how many times Mickey Mantle struck out. And Arod. And Mike Schmidt. And Ken Griffey. And Manny Ramirez. And Derek Jeter.


Would you care to quote the post where I said "-insert name- did NOT strike out a lot"?     Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit you're making **** up again?
"A lot" is a relative term. You said he struck out "a lot."

Looking at other elite hitters, that's clearly false.

His K rate was 13.9%. That's 251st highest among hitters with at least 5000 plate appearances. Not "a lot" of strikeouts.
Once every 7 AB seems like "a lot" to me. 
It's not.
Mantle struck out once every 6 PA.
Mays struck out once every 8 PA
Looks like I'll be drawing the line at 6.

Mantle didn't stike out a lot like Martinez and Mays did.     White power?
2/12/2014 1:51 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
2/12/2014 1:51 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 9:47:00 AM (view original):
Can you explain how Edgar Martinez was too patient in spots where he should have been looking to drive in runs above all else, relative to other elite sluggers?  You haven't shown any evidence of that.
You forgot about this. You know, your original argument.
...
I've tried to stick to EM because he's the player we're talking about.    As I've said MANY times, the players who hit behind him were not good hitters.   You've said, several times, "But -insert player name- walked just as much!!!"   My response was "If we want to compare the batters who hit behind him to the ones that hit behind EM, please make a list."    You have not done so. 

My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate.   I'm not going to attempt to guess how many pitches he took per season but he walked 100ish times per 162.   That's at least 400 pitches we know, without question, that he took.  Let's just assume he took a simple 20% of that in strikes.  80 pitches taken for strikes.   Let's say a huge amount of those strikes were of the unhittable variety(64 pitches).   So, in summation, he could have hit 16 pitches hard but he chose to take them.   I think this is a low number but I'll run with it.   Had he put 16 balls in plays instead of walking, maybe he gets 5 hits.   I think, given the make-up of Seattle's line-up, that would have been preferred over 16 walks.
"My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate." 

And you've shown no evidence to back up your theory.  And you're using this "feeling" as a reason why Edgar should be left out of the HOF.  You understand how dumb that makes you sound?  It's biz-like.

Also, historically, when batter swing at pitches that are out of the strike zone, the hit rate is less than 20%.  So maybe include borderline pitches, and the rate goes up to 25% for Edgar.  4 hits for every 16 swings+contact makes a lot more sense, considering his BABIP for his career is .335.  And I'm taking a guaranteed 16 walks to a 25% chance of a hit, almost every time.

And for what it's worth, it looks like the most common 5 hitters when Edgar batted 4th were Jay Buhner and John Olerud.  These were not slubs.

2/12/2014 1:51 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:39:00 PM (view original):
For ****'s sake, you're like a child begging for someone to compliment his crayon drawing that's hanging on the fridge.

Would you like to quote the post where I said "Getting on base is a bad thing.  Worse than making an out"?   Should I wait here or do you just want to admit you're making **** up again?

That's why I haven't responded to your oft-asked question.    Now get your crayons and draw another pic for the fridge.
Just to confirm, you think Martinez's high OBP was a good thing. Yes or no?
Your tenacity is only matched by your density and stupidity.    Stop asking stupid questions and I'll answer them. 

So are you looking for the "Getting on base is a bad thing.  Worse than making an out" post?   I'm dying to see it.  
Nope, I'm waiting for you to clearly confirm that you think Martinez's high OBP was a good thing. That way when I quote it later you can't accuse me of making it up.
2/12/2014 1:54 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 9:47:00 AM (view original):
Can you explain how Edgar Martinez was too patient in spots where he should have been looking to drive in runs above all else, relative to other elite sluggers?  You haven't shown any evidence of that.
You forgot about this. You know, your original argument.
...
I've tried to stick to EM because he's the player we're talking about.    As I've said MANY times, the players who hit behind him were not good hitters.   You've said, several times, "But -insert player name- walked just as much!!!"   My response was "If we want to compare the batters who hit behind him to the ones that hit behind EM, please make a list."    You have not done so. 

My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate.   I'm not going to attempt to guess how many pitches he took per season but he walked 100ish times per 162.   That's at least 400 pitches we know, without question, that he took.  Let's just assume he took a simple 20% of that in strikes.  80 pitches taken for strikes.   Let's say a huge amount of those strikes were of the unhittable variety(64 pitches).   So, in summation, he could have hit 16 pitches hard but he chose to take them.   I think this is a low number but I'll run with it.   Had he put 16 balls in plays instead of walking, maybe he gets 5 hits.   I think, given the make-up of Seattle's line-up, that would have been preferred over 16 walks.
"My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate." 

And you've shown no evidence to back up your theory.  And you're using this "feeling" as a reason why Edgar should be left out of the HOF.  You understand how dumb that makes you sound?  It's biz-like.

Also, historically, when batter swing at pitches that are out of the strike zone, the hit rate is less than 20%.  So maybe include borderline pitches, and the rate goes up to 25% for Edgar.  4 hits for every 16 swings+contact makes a lot more sense, considering his BABIP for his career is .335.  And I'm taking a guaranteed 16 walks to a 25% chance of a hit, almost every time.

And for what it's worth, it looks like the most common 5 hitters when Edgar batted 4th were Jay Buhner and John Olerud.  These were not slubs.

Goddam you're stupid.   Read my post again.    EM took 480 pitches.   Only 16 were in his comfort zone.    So his BABIP shouldn't be affected. 
2/12/2014 1:54 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:22:00 PM (view original):
BTW, I disagree with the argument of "he struck out a lot." but that's sort of irrelevant.
We should probably look up how many times Mickey Mantle struck out. And Arod. And Mike Schmidt. And Ken Griffey. And Manny Ramirez. And Derek Jeter.


Would you care to quote the post where I said "-insert name- did NOT strike out a lot"?     Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit you're making **** up again?
"A lot" is a relative term. You said he struck out "a lot."

Looking at other elite hitters, that's clearly false.

His K rate was 13.9%. That's 251st highest among hitters with at least 5000 plate appearances. Not "a lot" of strikeouts.
Once every 7 AB seems like "a lot" to me. 
It's not.
Mantle struck out once every 6 PA.
Mays struck out once every 8 PA
Looks like I'll be drawing the line at 6.

Mantle didn't stike out a lot like Martinez and Mays did.     White power?
You know the larger number is better, right?
2/12/2014 1:55 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:22:00 PM (view original):
BTW, I disagree with the argument of "he struck out a lot." but that's sort of irrelevant.
We should probably look up how many times Mickey Mantle struck out. And Arod. And Mike Schmidt. And Ken Griffey. And Manny Ramirez. And Derek Jeter.


Would you care to quote the post where I said "-insert name- did NOT strike out a lot"?     Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit you're making **** up again?
"A lot" is a relative term. You said he struck out "a lot."

Looking at other elite hitters, that's clearly false.

His K rate was 13.9%. That's 251st highest among hitters with at least 5000 plate appearances. Not "a lot" of strikeouts.
Once every 7 AB seems like "a lot" to me. 
It's not.
Mantle struck out once every 6 PA.
Mays struck out once every 8 PA
Looks like I'll be drawing the line at 6.

Mantle didn't stike out a lot like Martinez and Mays did.     White power?
You know the larger number is better, right?
Yep, read it wrong.   Mantle struck out a lot.   I'll draw the line at 8.

Mays did not.    Black power?
2/12/2014 1:55 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
2/12/2014 1:57 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 12:22:00 PM (view original):
BTW, I disagree with the argument of "he struck out a lot." but that's sort of irrelevant.
We should probably look up how many times Mickey Mantle struck out. And Arod. And Mike Schmidt. And Ken Griffey. And Manny Ramirez. And Derek Jeter.


Would you care to quote the post where I said "-insert name- did NOT strike out a lot"?     Should I wait here or would you just prefer to admit you're making **** up again?
"A lot" is a relative term. You said he struck out "a lot."

Looking at other elite hitters, that's clearly false.

His K rate was 13.9%. That's 251st highest among hitters with at least 5000 plate appearances. Not "a lot" of strikeouts.
Once every 7 AB seems like "a lot" to me. 
It's not.
Mantle struck out once every 6 PA.
Mays struck out once every 8 PA
Looks like I'll be drawing the line at 6.

Mantle didn't stike out a lot like Martinez and Mays did.     White power?
You know the larger number is better, right?
Yep, read it wrong.   Mantle struck out a lot.   I'll draw the line at 8.

Mays did not.    Black power?
So no HOF fame for Mantle? Both his K rate and BB rate are higher than Martinez, bad things in mike's book.
2/12/2014 1:57 PM
OK, Mike, so your argument is that he took 16 pitches a year that he could have hit hard, and that's one of the reasons he's not a HOFer?
2/12/2014 1:58 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Guess so if they struck out every 7 AB or so.   Good thing they hit well in those other 6 AB or we wouldn't be calling them elite, would we?
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