All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > 2015 baseball HOF ballot.
2/12/2014 1:59 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Everyone other than Ted Williams and Stan Musial struck out a lot.

A lot apparently means "anything more than the very least amount."

Mike: "That's a lot of beer you have there."
Person holding half empty can of bud light: "No, it really isn't."
Mike: "It is to me, goddammit."
2/12/2014 1:59 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Guess so if they struck out every 7 AB or so.   Good thing they hit well in those other 6 AB or we wouldn't be calling them elite, would we?
Yea.  Not sure what it has to do with anything.
2/12/2014 2:01 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Guess so if they struck out every 7 AB or so.   Good thing they hit well in those other 6 AB or we wouldn't be calling them elite, would we?
So K rate really isn't the most important factor, is it?

We should probably evaluate things that matter, like BA/OBP/SLG and ignore the K rate if it's perfectly in line with other elite hitters.
2/12/2014 2:01 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:57:00 PM (view original):
OK, Mike, so your argument is that he took 16 pitches a year that he could have hit hard, and that's one of the reasons he's not a HOFer?
For ****'s sake, burnsy_luck.    Did you read this?

My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate.   I'm not going to attempt to guess how many pitches he took per season but he walked 100ish times per 162.   That's at least 400 pitches we know, without question, that he took.  Let's just assume he took a simple 20% of that in strikes.  80 pitches taken for strikes.   Let's say a huge amount of those strikes were of the unhittable variety(64 pitches).   So, in summation, he could have hit 16 pitches hard but he chose to take them.   I think this is a low number but I'll run with it.   Had he put 16 balls in plays instead of walking, maybe he gets 5 hits.   I think, given the make-up of Seattle's line-up, that would have been preferred over 16 walks.
2/12/2014 2:02 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Guess so if they struck out every 7 AB or so.   Good thing they hit well in those other 6 AB or we wouldn't be calling them elite, would we?
So K rate really isn't the most important factor, is it?

We should probably evaluate things that matter, like BA/OBP/SLG and ignore the K rate if it's perfectly in line with other elite hitters.
Isn't strking out the same as making an out?   That's a bad thing, no?
2/12/2014 2:03 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Everyone other than Ted Williams and Stan Musial struck out a lot.

A lot apparently means "anything more than the very least amount."

Mike: "That's a lot of beer you have there."
Person holding half empty can of bud light: "No, it really isn't."
Mike: "It is to me, goddammit."
Dimaggio?
2/12/2014 2:03 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Everyone other than Ted Williams and Stan Musial struck out a lot.

A lot apparently means "anything more than the very least amount."

Mike: "That's a lot of beer you have there."
Person holding half empty can of bud light: "No, it really isn't."
Mike: "It is to me, goddammit."
Mike: "Edgar walked too much with guys on base."
Person with normal baseball knowledge: "Based on what? And when you compare to other elite hitters, you find..."
Mike: "Walked too much for me, goddammit."
2/12/2014 2:07 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Frank Thomas struck out once every 7 PA
He also struck out a lot.
The majority of elite hitters struck out a lot, I guess. 
Guess so if they struck out every 7 AB or so.   Good thing they hit well in those other 6 AB or we wouldn't be calling them elite, would we?
So K rate really isn't the most important factor, is it?

We should probably evaluate things that matter, like BA/OBP/SLG and ignore the K rate if it's perfectly in line with other elite hitters.
Isn't strking out the same as making an out?   That's a bad thing, no?
You're right. We should focus on how often Martinez made outs.

2/12/2014 2:08 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:57:00 PM (view original):
OK, Mike, so your argument is that he took 16 pitches a year that he could have hit hard, and that's one of the reasons he's not a HOFer?
For ****'s sake, burnsy_luck.    Did you read this?

My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate.   I'm not going to attempt to guess how many pitches he took per season but he walked 100ish times per 162.   That's at least 400 pitches we know, without question, that he took.  Let's just assume he took a simple 20% of that in strikes.  80 pitches taken for strikes.   Let's say a huge amount of those strikes were of the unhittable variety(64 pitches).   So, in summation, he could have hit 16 pitches hard but he chose to take them.   I think this is a low number but I'll run with it.   Had he put 16 balls in plays instead of walking, maybe he gets 5 hits.   I think, given the make-up of Seattle's line-up, that would have been preferred over 16 walks.
He likely gets less than 5 hits, which would hurt his team.  

Regardless, your argument is that you think Edgar should have traded 16 walks a year for 5 hits.  If he did that, what's to keep you from making the same argument?  Where's the limit?  What do you want his on base percentage to be before you make this argument?  How would you know when to make the argument and when not to?  Do you see how very limited information you have here?  You have NO IDEA how selective Edgar Martinez was.
2/12/2014 2:09 PM
You know what separates us from MLB players?  The ability to HIT.   I'm pretty sure all of us could stand at the plate and not swing.   Or stand at the plate and swing blindly.   But we're not going to HIT well enough to get a MLB job.    Even though BL thinks Edgar Martinez and Mario Mendoza would produce the same run probability at the plate, Mario Mendoza would get a MLB before any of us. 
2/12/2014 2:09 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:39:00 PM (view original):
For ****'s sake, you're like a child begging for someone to compliment his crayon drawing that's hanging on the fridge.

Would you like to quote the post where I said "Getting on base is a bad thing.  Worse than making an out"?   Should I wait here or do you just want to admit you're making **** up again?

That's why I haven't responded to your oft-asked question.    Now get your crayons and draw another pic for the fridge.
Just to confirm, you think Martinez's high OBP was a good thing. Yes or no?
Mike?
2/12/2014 2:10 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:09:00 PM (view original):
You know what separates us from MLB players?  The ability to HIT.   I'm pretty sure all of us could stand at the plate and not swing.   Or stand at the plate and swing blindly.   But we're not going to HIT well enough to get a MLB job.    Even though BL thinks Edgar Martinez and Mario Mendoza would produce the same run probability at the plate, Mario Mendoza would get a MLB before any of us. 
You think if you were an MLB player that you'd walk as much as Edgar Martinez?
2/12/2014 2:10 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 2:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 1:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 1:39:00 PM (view original):
For ****'s sake, you're like a child begging for someone to compliment his crayon drawing that's hanging on the fridge.

Would you like to quote the post where I said "Getting on base is a bad thing.  Worse than making an out"?   Should I wait here or do you just want to admit you're making **** up again?

That's why I haven't responded to your oft-asked question.    Now get your crayons and draw another pic for the fridge.
Just to confirm, you think Martinez's high OBP was a good thing. Yes or no?
Mike?
It's too high for Mike.  He needs to trade 16 walks for 5 hits.
2/12/2014 2:10 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:57:00 PM (view original):
OK, Mike, so your argument is that he took 16 pitches a year that he could have hit hard, and that's one of the reasons he's not a HOFer?
For ****'s sake, burnsy_luck.    Did you read this?

My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate.   I'm not going to attempt to guess how many pitches he took per season but he walked 100ish times per 162.   That's at least 400 pitches we know, without question, that he took.  Let's just assume he took a simple 20% of that in strikes.  80 pitches taken for strikes.   Let's say a huge amount of those strikes were of the unhittable variety(64 pitches).   So, in summation, he could have hit 16 pitches hard but he chose to take them.   I think this is a low number but I'll run with it.   Had he put 16 balls in plays instead of walking, maybe he gets 5 hits.   I think, given the make-up of Seattle's line-up, that would have been preferred over 16 walks.
He likely gets less than 5 hits, which would hurt his team.  

Regardless, your argument is that you think Edgar should have traded 16 walks a year for 5 hits.  If he did that, what's to keep you from making the same argument?  Where's the limit?  What do you want his on base percentage to be before you make this argument?  How would you know when to make the argument and when not to?  Do you see how very limited information you have here?  You have NO IDEA how selective Edgar Martinez was.
Why would he get less than 5 hits in 16 perfectly acceptable, hittable pitches that he would swing at on most occassions?   That's right in line with his career average.   Explain, please.
2/12/2014 2:12 PM
Keep quoting yourself BL and asking the same stupid question.  It makes me smile.

It's like you're the Smile Fairy.   You just keep handing them out.
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