All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > 2015 baseball HOF ballot.
2/12/2014 2:13 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:09:00 PM (view original):
You know what separates us from MLB players?  The ability to HIT.   I'm pretty sure all of us could stand at the plate and not swing.   Or stand at the plate and swing blindly.   But we're not going to HIT well enough to get a MLB job.    Even though BL thinks Edgar Martinez and Mario Mendoza would produce the same run probability at the plate, Mario Mendoza would get a MLB before any of us. 
You think if you were an MLB player that you'd walk as much as Edgar Martinez?
Do you think you could take as many pitches as he did?    I could if they'd let me keep the job.
2/12/2014 2:13 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 1:57:00 PM (view original):
OK, Mike, so your argument is that he took 16 pitches a year that he could have hit hard, and that's one of the reasons he's not a HOFer?
For ****'s sake, burnsy_luck.    Did you read this?

My point, all along, was that I felt EM could have been more valuable to the Mariners by being a tad less selective at the plate.   I'm not going to attempt to guess how many pitches he took per season but he walked 100ish times per 162.   That's at least 400 pitches we know, without question, that he took.  Let's just assume he took a simple 20% of that in strikes.  80 pitches taken for strikes.   Let's say a huge amount of those strikes were of the unhittable variety(64 pitches).   So, in summation, he could have hit 16 pitches hard but he chose to take them.   I think this is a low number but I'll run with it.   Had he put 16 balls in plays instead of walking, maybe he gets 5 hits.   I think, given the make-up of Seattle's line-up, that would have been preferred over 16 walks.
He likely gets less than 5 hits, which would hurt his team.  

Regardless, your argument is that you think Edgar should have traded 16 walks a year for 5 hits.  If he did that, what's to keep you from making the same argument?  Where's the limit?  What do you want his on base percentage to be before you make this argument?  How would you know when to make the argument and when not to?  Do you see how very limited information you have here?  You have NO IDEA how selective Edgar Martinez was.
Why would he get less than 5 hits in 16 perfectly acceptable, hittable pitches that he would swing at on most occassions?   That's right in line with his career average.   Explain, please.
That's fair.  
2/12/2014 2:13 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:09:00 PM (view original):
You know what separates us from MLB players?  The ability to HIT.   I'm pretty sure all of us could stand at the plate and not swing.   Or stand at the plate and swing blindly.   But we're not going to HIT well enough to get a MLB job.    Even though BL thinks Edgar Martinez and Mario Mendoza would produce the same run probability at the plate, Mario Mendoza would get a MLB before any of us. 
You think if you were an MLB player that you'd walk as much as Edgar Martinez?
Do you think you could take as many pitches as he did?    I could if they'd let me keep the job.
Probably not.  I'd get a shitton more strikes because the pitcher would know I couldn't hit.
2/12/2014 2:15 PM
Regardless, your argument is that you think Edgar should have traded 16 walks a year for 5 hits.  If he did that, what's to keep you from making the same argument?  Where's the limit?  What do you want his on base percentage to be before you make this argument?  How would you know when to make the argument and when not to?  Do you see how very limited information you have here?  You have NO IDEA how selective Edgar Martinez was.
2/12/2014 2:17 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:12:00 PM (view original):
Keep quoting yourself BL and asking the same stupid question.  It makes me smile.

It's like you're the Smile Fairy.   You just keep handing them out.
It's very interesting that you won't answer it. Even tec did.

Do you think that Martinez's high OBP is a good thing? Yes or no.
2/12/2014 2:19 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:12:00 PM (view original):
Keep quoting yourself BL and asking the same stupid question.  It makes me smile.

It's like you're the Smile Fairy.   You just keep handing them out.
It's very interesting that you won't answer it. Even tec did.

Do you think that Martinez's high OBP is a good thing? Yes or no.
Dude, he's already told you.  The OBP is too high, he's too selective.
2/12/2014 2:20 PM
2/12/2014 2:21 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Regardless, your argument is that you think Edgar should have traded 16 walks a year for 5 hits.  If he did that, what's to keep you from making the same argument?  Where's the limit?  What do you want his on base percentage to be before you make this argument?  How would you know when to make the argument and when not to?  Do you see how very limited information you have here?  You have NO IDEA how selective Edgar Martinez was.
You also realize this same argument could be made for literally EVERY elite cleanup hitter.
2/12/2014 2:25 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/12/2014 2:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/12/2014 2:12:00 PM (view original):
Keep quoting yourself BL and asking the same stupid question.  It makes me smile.

It's like you're the Smile Fairy.   You just keep handing them out.
It's very interesting that you won't answer it. Even tec did.

Do you think that Martinez's high OBP is a good thing? Yes or no.
Dude, he's already told you.  The OBP is too high, he's too selective.
I want him to say it clearly.

That way I can quote it. Otherwise I'll say, "damn mike, you're the idiot who thought EM's OBP was too high." And he'll respond with "why don't you quote where I said that. Otherwise, stop making **** up."
2/12/2014 2:25 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Regardless, your argument is that you think Edgar should have traded 16 walks a year for 5 hits.  If he did that, what's to keep you from making the same argument?  Where's the limit?  What do you want his on base percentage to be before you make this argument?  How would you know when to make the argument and when not to?  Do you see how very limited information you have here?  You have NO IDEA how selective Edgar Martinez was.
You also realize this same argument could be made for literally EVERY elite cleanup hitter.
He does but he doesn't care. That fact is inconvenient to his retarded argument.
2/12/2014 2:32 PM

A: Why aren't you voting for Bagwell for HOF?

B: Well, among other things, he was too selective at the plate.

A: Huh?

B: I'm sure there are at least 16 times a year where he walked and took a pitch in the atbat he could have driven.  I want my best hitter HITTING, dammit.  Didn't do his teams any favors.

...

2/12/2014 2:36 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/12/2014 2:33:00 PM (view original):

A: Why aren't you voting for Bagwell for HOF?

B: Well, among other things, he was too selective at the plate.

A: Huh?

B: I'm sure there are at least 16 times a year where he walked and took a pitch in the atbat he could have driven.  I want my best hitter HITTING, dammit.  Didn't do his teams any favors.

...

You could literally replace Bagwell with any hall of fame hitter.

Except Dawson. Jesus Christ, Dawson, take a walk once in a while.
2/12/2014 2:41 PM
Vlad's in the HOF convo and Mike brought him up too.  Add him to Dawson.
2/12/2014 3:58 PM
Wanna quote the post where I said Vlad was a HOFer?  Should I wait here or do you just wanna admit you are making **** up, burnsy_luck?
2/12/2014 3:59 PM
As I understand you, there are two ultimate outcomes to an AB.  A walk or an out.   At least it pertains to EM.
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