All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Derek Jeter's Last Stand
3/3/2014 10:46 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/3/2014 10:31:00 AM (view original):
Is taking a game or two off during the season also "so damn difficult"?

I could give 2 ***** about Cal.  
3/3/2014 10:48 AM
Then why are you participating in this discussion?
3/3/2014 10:51 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/3/2014 10:45:00 AM (view original):
They're both huge competitors, believe that they are the best at what they do, and are inherently selfish.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  I don't blame Jeter for not volunteering to move to 3B, and I don't blame Ripken for asking out of the lineup.

The original point was that Jeter isn't this "team-first, selfless captain" that he's made out to be.  And Ripken isn't either.  I've heard a couple stories about how much of a dick he was from people who have met him.

And that's a fair assessment / opinion.

My problem is really with jtpoops, who seems to be determined to make the argument that Jeter is this selfish "me-first" *****, while failing to even consider the possibility that the exact same argument can be made about Ripken.  Ego, and a "me above the team" attitude.

3/3/2014 11:01 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/3/2014 10:48:00 AM (view original):
Then why are you participating in this discussion?
Almost positive this discussion is...or at least was about Jeter.  I mean, I don't see Cal in the thread title.
3/3/2014 11:01 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/3/2014 10:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/3/2014 10:45:00 AM (view original):
They're both huge competitors, believe that they are the best at what they do, and are inherently selfish.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  I don't blame Jeter for not volunteering to move to 3B, and I don't blame Ripken for asking out of the lineup.

The original point was that Jeter isn't this "team-first, selfless captain" that he's made out to be.  And Ripken isn't either.  I've heard a couple stories about how much of a dick he was from people who have met him.

And that's a fair assessment / opinion.

My problem is really with jtpoops, who seems to be determined to make the argument that Jeter is this selfish "me-first" *****, while failing to even consider the possibility that the exact same argument can be made about Ripken.  Ego, and a "me above the team" attitude.

There's your problem, you read one of JT's posts!


3/3/2014 11:08 AM (edited)
FWIW, as a 30 year old (so when I watched Ripken, he was in decline), Cal was my least favorite player in baseball.  Guy who had star-power, but during the time I watched him play, didn't play like a star, and was popular because of the streak.  I guy in his 30s playing shortstop, even obvious to me at that time, would be better served to his team to take some time off.  It came across as selfish to me - a simple "skip, this is stupid, give me a day off on this west coast trip" would be something a "team-first selfless captain" would do, and also would take attention away from himself, which would probably be good for his team.  In the same way I thought it was self-promotional for Jeter to announce his retirement in February, the circus that surrounded Ripken in the early-mid 90s is the same thing. (more so, obviously) I can't imagine the Orioles being better off with Ripken chasing Gehrig.  They're both selfish.  I'd argue Ripken more so.  The streak, when you step back and think about it, is kinda stupid.  Playing in a baseball game doesn't mean anything noteworthy in itself, but it became a huge deal, and Ripken allowed it to.
3/3/2014 11:13 AM
Posted by 05nomar05 on 3/3/2014 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2014 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by 05nomar05 on 3/2/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
3B free agents 2004
Beltre

SS 2004
Alex Gonzalez
Orlando Cabera
Omar Vizquel 

I'd say they could have done a lot better moving Jeters to LF.

Jeter goes to LF and Beltre signs.   What happens then?

At that time.  A-Roid was a stud SS.  He won the GG at SS the 2 previous years before he went to the Yanks (and they were legit ones).

It was clear as day that A-Rod was a far superior defensive SS than Jeter.  Only Yankee fans didn't see it.


But what happens if that move is made?   A-Rod to SS, Jeter to LF and Beltre plays 3B.

What happens?
3/3/2014 11:17 AM
This is why I dislike the "Jeter to LF" argument.

Where does their left fielder play?
3/3/2014 11:25 AM
We're talking about 2005?

Maybe sit Tino? Jeter/Matsui/Giambi were all much better bats than Martinez that year. It wouldn't have been hard to find a way to get all three in the lineup with 1B available. Bernie Williams was the real weak link on that team.

Also nothing wrong with leaving Jeter at short at this point. 
3/3/2014 11:29 AM
A-Rod played for Yankees in 2004.

Since Beltre wasn't a FA until 2005, this is a silly argument.  If they were going to switch positions, it would have happened immediately.
3/3/2014 11:30 AM
It's a dumb argument.  

You move him in 2004, A-Rod plays SS for 2 years then "outgrows" the position.   Matsui is playing 1B(or course he can play it!!!) and Giambi is the DH for those two years.   Then, in 2006, they have Beltre and A-Rod to play 3B and need a SS.   But I guess one of them can go play RF or 2B.  

Yet, with all this nonsense, the Yankees were making the playoffs without doing any of it.  Jeter at SS wasn't the reason they weren't winning the WS.
3/3/2014 11:34 AM
That's even easier. Tony Clark and Ruben Sierra got 620 combined PA with a 95 and 94 OPS+ at the 1B and DH spots. Miguel Cairo got 400 PA at 2B. I'm sure the Yankees could have figured something out.

But again, no need to move Jeter in 2004.
3/3/2014 11:37 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/3/2014 11:30:00 AM (view original):
It's a dumb argument.  

You move him in 2004, A-Rod plays SS for 2 years then "outgrows" the position.   Matsui is playing 1B(or course he can play it!!!) and Giambi is the DH for those two years.   Then, in 2006, they have Beltre and A-Rod to play 3B and need a SS.   But I guess one of them can go play RF or 2B.  

Yet, with all this nonsense, the Yankees were making the playoffs without doing any of it.  Jeter at SS wasn't the reason they weren't winning the WS.
You're right. The reason they weren't winning the WS in 2004 was their starting pitching. And the fact that they gave Tony Clark, Ruben Sierra, and Miguel Cairo over 1000 PA.
3/3/2014 11:38 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/3/2014 11:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by 05nomar05 on 3/3/2014 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/2/2014 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by 05nomar05 on 3/2/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
3B free agents 2004
Beltre

SS 2004
Alex Gonzalez
Orlando Cabera
Omar Vizquel 

I'd say they could have done a lot better moving Jeters to LF.

Jeter goes to LF and Beltre signs.   What happens then?

At that time.  A-Roid was a stud SS.  He won the GG at SS the 2 previous years before he went to the Yanks (and they were legit ones).

It was clear as day that A-Rod was a far superior defensive SS than Jeter.  Only Yankee fans didn't see it.


But what happens if that move is made?   A-Rod to SS, Jeter to LF and Beltre plays 3B.

What happens?
They'd have 2 stud defensive players on the left side of the field.

Jeter would have been a upgrade of Matsui/Sheffield.  One of them would have DH'ed....and it would have improved their D.
3/3/2014 11:38 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 3/3/2014 11:34:00 AM (view original):
That's even easier. Tony Clark and Ruben Sierra got 620 combined PA with a 95 and 94 OPS+ at the 1B and DH spots. Miguel Cairo got 400 PA at 2B. I'm sure the Yankees could have figured something out.

But again, no need to move Jeter in 2004.
Who plays 1st? 
of 94
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Derek Jeter's Last Stand

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.