Posted by tecwrg on 7/29/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Pie Traynor is generally regarded as one of the best, if not the best, third basemen during the era in which he played.
Ditto for Home Run Baker. Dismissing his 135 career OPS+ due to "bad defense" is quite disingenuous on your part.
Judy Johnson was also considered one of the best third basemen in the hostory of the Negro Leagues. Another disingenuous argument on your part to dismiss him.
My bad on Eddie Collins, that was a typo. Should have been Jimmy Collins.
Pie Traynor is not better than Beltre by ANY measure.
Let's talk about Baker. He had a 135 OPS+. Do you think OPS+ is a good way to evaluate offense? I seem to remember you flipping the **** out when someone pointed out that Rick Monday and Bernie Williams had the same OPS+. Are we cool to use it always or only when it is convenient to your argument?
I think Home Run Baker is probably the closest of these guys to Beltre. And it's still a pretty big gap. Baker hit 96 home runs over 13 seasons. His .363 OBP is nice but that's really the only thing he has on Beltre. Beltre is better by about 15 wins and still has a couple years left.
Judy Johnson was didn't play in the major leagues. I have no idea how good he was. Neither do you.
Nothing about Jimmy Collins career (1895-1908) suggests he was better than Beltre. Why do you think he's better?
You're grasping at straws. If Beltre was so clearly not a Hall of Famer, it would very easy to make a significant list of players better than him at his position.