Victoryyyyyy!!!!!!! Topic

Posted by aginor on 1/19/2017 6:53:00 AM (view original):
Back door? I don't think so. Over 800 Bases stolen, better success % than Henderson, an on base percentage as good or better than some already in the HOF,.... The guy was one of the best of his time, plain and simple. Two things hurt him, being Henderson's shadow all the time and playing in Montreal.

Voters today look at the game from a view point of how the game is played today. Long ball is king. Back in the 80s it was a track meet and Raines was second only to Rickey over his long career. Also with that AstroTurf you needed speed in the outfield back then. Raines was as solid in the field as they come.

He gets in through the front door with a career deserving of HOF status
lol I'm just waiting for the "he doesn't feel like a HoFer" post xD they'll feel my wrath
1/19/2017 10:39 AM
The only thing I take umbrage with regarding Raines is that a lot of people are calling him "the best leadoff hitter of all-time". Is he in the discussion? Yes. But he's not the best.
1/19/2017 10:40 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 1/19/2017 10:37:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/19/2017 10:30:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 1/19/2017 10:21:00 AM (view original):
Way to add 2 and 2 and come up with 17.
Not really. When someone says "I'm not voting for these great hitters because they didn't play enough innings in the field", it's pretty clear you won't vote for a DH. Why else would their innings in the field impact their HOF-worthiness?

I do enjoy when you say stuff and try to convince others you meant something completely different. Classic TecT23.
I enjoy when you read something and insist that it says something else. Classic jtpop_luck.
Nope, I took it as it was written. To use your own example, you declared "2 + 2 = 17!" and now you're trying to convince us that when you said 2 + 2 = 17, you really meant 2 + 2 = 4 and anyone who thinks differently is an idiot.

But we can try your approach..."If that's not what it means, then I demand you enlighten us as to what it's actually saying!!!"

1/19/2017 10:43 AM
Posted by sjpoker on 1/19/2017 10:40:00 AM (view original):
The only thing I take umbrage with regarding Raines is that a lot of people are calling him "the best leadoff hitter of all-time". Is he in the discussion? Yes. But he's not the best.
Rickey knows that Rickey is the greatest leadoff hitter of all-time,so Rickey doesn't care what them other guys say.
1/19/2017 11:07 AM
Posted by all3 on 1/19/2017 11:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by sjpoker on 1/19/2017 10:40:00 AM (view original):
The only thing I take umbrage with regarding Raines is that a lot of people are calling him "the best leadoff hitter of all-time". Is he in the discussion? Yes. But he's not the best.
Rickey knows that Rickey is the greatest leadoff hitter of all-time,so Rickey doesn't care what them other guys say.
True Raines was very good no doubt, but Rickey was.....he was Mr. Steal. Both are deserving members of the HOF
1/19/2017 11:28 AM
Exactly. The second-best leadoff hitter just happened to have his career overlap with the best - which is why his induction took so long. That's the problem with blanket approaches like "Well, he wasn't he best of his era, so he's not a HOFer."
1/19/2017 11:39 AM
Can we talk about "best leadoff" hitter (or #2 hitter or #4 hitter etc.)?

This isn't an attack on you, jtpsops, just something that bugs me in general.

Raines and Henderson aren't a great baseball player because they were the best leadoff hitters. They are great players because they were great players. They'd be equally great if they had hit second or third or fourth in the lineup. It really doesn't matter where they hit. The idea that certain spots in the lineup need to be filled by a certain types of players is an outdated and ineffective way of analyzing baseball.

Other than the fact that you want to bat your best hitters in the top half of the lineup and your worst hitters in the bottom half, where they hit really doesn't matter.

It's the same line of thinking that keeps a third baseman out of the hall of fame because his skills don't necessarily line up with the traditional thought that corner infielders are power bats. Ignoring the reality that third base, in terms of offensive output and required defensive skill, is much, much closer to second base than first base. If, for example, Scott Rolen had played second base with the same defensive excellence and above average bat, he'd probably be a first ballot hall of famer.
1/19/2017 12:10 PM
Way to parrot virtually exactly what I said in the other thread...
1/19/2017 12:46 PM
Oh, I didn't see it.
1/19/2017 12:59 PM
Scott Rolen will never see the HOF unless he buys a ticket.
1/19/2017 1:02 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 1/19/2017 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Scott Rolen will never see the HOF unless he buys a ticket.
1/19/2017 1:30 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 1/19/2017 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Scott Rolen will never see the HOF unless he buys a ticket.
I've been saying that I agree with you, but that doesn't make it right. I also wouldn't be as definitive about it as you are. The BBWAA voting patterns have been trending increasingly sabermetric for the past 5+ years and Rolen has 10 years for that process to carry on as long as he gets enough votes early to stay on the ballot. Rolen's 9th in career fWAR among third basemen, so the more SABR the voters go, the stronger he'll get.
1/19/2017 1:37 PM
Ight cool. So now everyone agrees that Raines is a deserving HoFer. Had to destroy some people in the Yahoo comments section this morning.
1/19/2017 1:44 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 1/19/2017 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 1/19/2017 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Scott Rolen will never see the HOF unless he buys a ticket.
Obviously you THINK he deserves it.

But do you believe that he will be elected by the BBWAA?
1/19/2017 1:44 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 1/19/2017 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Way to parrot virtually exactly what I said in the other thread...
You know it takes you soooooooo long to get to the point that few finish reading your posts, right?
1/19/2017 1:52 PM
◂ Prev 1|2|3|4|5...10 Next ▸
Victoryyyyyy!!!!!!! Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.