Broncos - Ware's the defense? Topic

what's that prove exactly?
1/15/2012 4:26 PM
Mike, you're such a Tebow fanboy.

All you ever say is "HES STILL YOUNG!!! THE SKY'S THE LIMIT!"

Blaine Gabbert can still get better too, but nobody thinks he's ever going to do **** as an NFL QB and Tebow is only a **** hair better.
1/15/2012 4:43 PM
Posted by jvford on 1/15/2012 4:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 3:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 1/15/2012 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 1/15/2012 12:29:00 PM (view original):
Tebow's passing accuracy sucks. It's unlikely to get much better. Sure, he may get better at reading defenses and making decisions....but he's never going to be one of those guys that can hit his targets consistently and that will severely limit his potential.
It's been noted dozens of times that young QBs usually improve their accuracy as they get experience.    Of course, I guess Tebow is different.
You're confusing completion percentage with actual accuracy.

Some QBs just can't make the ball go where they want it.
So a guy who completed 2/3 of his college passes can't throw the ball where he wants to?   Seems a bit odd to suggest that.
Only odd to someone who thinks accuracy is the only component of completion percentage.

Actually, the oddest thing is that there is someone suggesting that Tebow might be accurate.
Without accuracy, you're not completing a whole lot of passes, no?

Or are you insisting that Tebow threw the ball up around 1000 times in college and his amazing receivers ran under them?   I think he had Aaron Hernandez, Riley Cooper and Percy Harvin for a season or two. 
1/15/2012 5:07 PM
Posted by deanod on 1/15/2012 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Mike, you're such a Tebow fanboy.

All you ever say is "HES STILL YOUNG!!! THE SKY'S THE LIMIT!"

Blaine Gabbert can still get better too, but nobody thinks he's ever going to do **** as an NFL QB and Tebow is only a **** hair better.
I don't think I've ever said "THE SKY'S THE LIMIT!" until just then.

I just think it's blatantly stupid to think he's not going to complete passes at a higher percentage when history shows that QBs tend to become more accurate after their first season.

He misses 2-3 wide open receivers every game.   If he hits those, he's at 53% and we're just talking about how he can't throw a spiral. 
1/15/2012 5:13 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 5:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by deanod on 1/15/2012 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Mike, you're such a Tebow fanboy.

All you ever say is "HES STILL YOUNG!!! THE SKY'S THE LIMIT!"

Blaine Gabbert can still get better too, but nobody thinks he's ever going to do **** as an NFL QB and Tebow is only a **** hair better.
I don't think I've ever said "THE SKY'S THE LIMIT!" until just then.

I just think it's blatantly stupid to think he's not going to complete passes at a higher percentage when history shows that QBs tend to become more accurate after their first season.

He misses 2-3 wide open receivers every game.   If he hits those, he's at 53% and we're just talking about how he can't throw a spiral. 
But he doesn't just miss them, he misses them by a MILE.  You can't take it for granted that he's just going to get better and better and better.  It's very much within in the realm of possibility that he stays < 50% for his entire career (i'd say more likely than not).  And even if he hits 53% which is probably his ceiling (at least w/o taking out deep throws and making him throw a million dumpoffs) that makes him still just barely acceptable as a starting QB and still quite a bit below average.
1/15/2012 5:42 PM
So did Donovan McNabb for his entire career.   And, again, I don't really care about completion percentage, that's your thing, but I threw it in there because adding 20 completions this year puts him near your magical 55% for an absolute minimum for a starting NFL QB. 

I'll repeat, he completed 2/3 of his passes in college.   The windows were bigger and he could hold the ball longer but it's not like we're talking about some kid from Botswana that's never thrown a football.    I think, like with every NFL QB, the game will slow down for him and, instead of the hurried, get-it-out-of-my-hand pass, he'll start hitting those wide open receivers.  And, quite possibly, Denver might get him a legit target.
1/15/2012 5:57 PM
BTW, Fallon is seldom amusing.  But this is kinda funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGC7LIATKZc
1/15/2012 6:11 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 5:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 1/15/2012 4:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 3:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 1/15/2012 2:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 1/15/2012 12:29:00 PM (view original):
Tebow's passing accuracy sucks. It's unlikely to get much better. Sure, he may get better at reading defenses and making decisions....but he's never going to be one of those guys that can hit his targets consistently and that will severely limit his potential.
It's been noted dozens of times that young QBs usually improve their accuracy as they get experience.    Of course, I guess Tebow is different.
You're confusing completion percentage with actual accuracy.

Some QBs just can't make the ball go where they want it.
So a guy who completed 2/3 of his college passes can't throw the ball where he wants to?   Seems a bit odd to suggest that.
Only odd to someone who thinks accuracy is the only component of completion percentage.

Actually, the oddest thing is that there is someone suggesting that Tebow might be accurate.
Without accuracy, you're not completing a whole lot of passes, no?

Or are you insisting that Tebow threw the ball up around 1000 times in college and his amazing receivers ran under them?   I think he had Aaron Hernandez, Riley Cooper and Percy Harvin for a season or two. 
So you believe that a QB that can hit wide open receivers in college must have the ability to be accurate in the NFL?
1/15/2012 7:28 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 5:57:00 PM (view original):
So did Donovan McNabb for his entire career.   And, again, I don't really care about completion percentage, that's your thing, but I threw it in there because adding 20 completions this year puts him near your magical 55% for an absolute minimum for a starting NFL QB. 

I'll repeat, he completed 2/3 of his passes in college.   The windows were bigger and he could hold the ball longer but it's not like we're talking about some kid from Botswana that's never thrown a football.    I think, like with every NFL QB, the game will slow down for him and, instead of the hurried, get-it-out-of-my-hand pass, he'll start hitting those wide open receivers.  And, quite possibly, Denver might get him a legit target.
This.  You should read the other posts and not just the ones that are in response to you.
1/15/2012 7:44 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 5:57:00 PM (view original):
So did Donovan McNabb for his entire career.   And, again, I don't really care about completion percentage, that's your thing, but I threw it in there because adding 20 completions this year puts him near your magical 55% for an absolute minimum for a starting NFL QB. 

I'll repeat, he completed 2/3 of his passes in college.   The windows were bigger and he could hold the ball longer but it's not like we're talking about some kid from Botswana that's never thrown a football.    I think, like with every NFL QB, the game will slow down for him and, instead of the hurried, get-it-out-of-my-hand pass, he'll start hitting those wide open receivers.  And, quite possibly, Denver might get him a legit target.
Um, weren't you were the one that set the arbitrary mark of 55 per cent completion percentage as a benchmark for success? As I recall, Bill Walsh had suggested 61 per cent should be considered the minimum benchmark for quarterbacks in the modern, pass-friendly NFL in order to be effective and compete for championships.

In any event, you appeared to have pulled that 55 per cent benchmark from the same place as the observation that Donovan McNabb displayed the same sort of misses that plagued Tebow this year. McNabb has a career completion percentage of 59 per cent. That's in the NFL, by the way. It's easy to see why you don't really care about completion percentage in the case of Tebow, unless it's during his time at Florida.
1/15/2012 7:52 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 7:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 5:57:00 PM (view original):
So did Donovan McNabb for his entire career.   And, again, I don't really care about completion percentage, that's your thing, but I threw it in there because adding 20 completions this year puts him near your magical 55% for an absolute minimum for a starting NFL QB. 

I'll repeat, he completed 2/3 of his passes in college.   The windows were bigger and he could hold the ball longer but it's not like we're talking about some kid from Botswana that's never thrown a football.    I think, like with every NFL QB, the game will slow down for him and, instead of the hurried, get-it-out-of-my-hand pass, he'll start hitting those wide open receivers.  And, quite possibly, Denver might get him a legit target.
This.  You should read the other posts and not just the ones that are in response to you.
Ahhhhh.......so you do believe that his college completion percentage has some bearing on his NFL accuracy.

Confirmation that you're just a Tebow apologist and don't know what you're talking about.

You should just watch the games. Even when he's not under pressure, he misses the tight NFL window way too often.......and if a QB can't hit that window by the time he gets to the NFL, he's unlikely to ever hit it.

1/15/2012 8:43 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/15/2012 3:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by stinenavy on 1/15/2012 3:33:00 PM (view original):
He had a passing and rushing TD in the first SD game. My mistake, 6 instead of 7. So a total of 17 passing TD and 8 rushing in 16 starts.

It makes you look foolish to keep looking for the absolute best case scenarios and be like "SEE ELWAY AND YOUNG SUCKED TOO WHY CAN'T TEBOW BE JUST LIKE THEM!?!?!?

Being realistic, I think a better comparison may be Kordell Stewart, but Tebow has a ways to go to be as good as a passer.
How am I looking for the best case scenario.

You're saying "Tebow will NEVER get better"...I'm saying "Tebow CAN get better, and here's evidence."  I'm not guaranteeing anything - you are. Do you see the difference?
What's the point of posting Steve Young's stats and mentioning that Elway had a poor first season? Spare me for believing that your point was to try and say that because they were poor, that Tebow has a chance.

The Tebow led offense scored 18.7 PPG this season. That's awful. I agree that he was the QB of a team that made the playoffs, but their crazy good record in close games is not something that is sustainable, not because Tebow did it, but because there's 50 years of data saying that it's not sustainable.

I never said "Tebow will NEVER get better". So I'm not sure who you're trying to quote. I just said that he's not going to magically become a good passer. Even if he makes it to 53% or whatever, that's still untolerable.

Tebow's going to get another season to show if he's capable of being a legit starting QB, but what this means is Denver will be in the Matt Barkley sweepstakes.
1/15/2012 8:48 PM
Surprised this is still going. 

I think they put Tebow in hoping he'd fail.  They were half right in that he wasn't that good, but he managed to win way more games than they expected.  They figured he'd lose and they could draft one of the guys coming out this year.  The bad news is that they missed out on Luck, but the good news as the poster above said is that Barkley will be available.  Either Tebow shows he can cut it or they get to draft a QB near the top of the draft.  My concern is that Tebow will be good enough for them not to suck and bad enough to keep them from the playoffs.
1/15/2012 9:14 PM
I think Tebow got a TON of luck this year and had almost everything go his way for a while.  Even when reality was kicking him square in the balls, he'd get bailed out....the Bears game is a PERFECT example.  Things go right for teams every year, and things went right in Denver for a spell.  It was just unsustainable.
1/15/2012 9:20 PM
Posted by jvford on 1/15/2012 8:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 7:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2012 5:57:00 PM (view original):
So did Donovan McNabb for his entire career.   And, again, I don't really care about completion percentage, that's your thing, but I threw it in there because adding 20 completions this year puts him near your magical 55% for an absolute minimum for a starting NFL QB. 

I'll repeat, he completed 2/3 of his passes in college.   The windows were bigger and he could hold the ball longer but it's not like we're talking about some kid from Botswana that's never thrown a football.    I think, like with every NFL QB, the game will slow down for him and, instead of the hurried, get-it-out-of-my-hand pass, he'll start hitting those wide open receivers.  And, quite possibly, Denver might get him a legit target.
This.  You should read the other posts and not just the ones that are in response to you.
Ahhhhh.......so you do believe that his college completion percentage has some bearing on his NFL accuracy.

Confirmation that you're just a Tebow apologist and don't know what you're talking about.

You should just watch the games. Even when he's not under pressure, he misses the tight NFL window way too often.......and if a QB can't hit that window by the time he gets to the NFL, he's unlikely to ever hit it.

I'm a Raiders fan so I have no reason to apologize for Tebow. 

But the simple fact of the matter is that he threw the ball well enough in HS to get a scholarship at a major football power.   He threw the ball well enough in college(and on his pro day) to be drafted in the first round of the NFL draft.  He threw the ball well enough to get some playing time his rookie season.   He threw the ball well enough under a new coach and VP of football operations(neither of whom expressed any confidence in him) to get some starts this season.  He threw the ball well enought to win some games and make the playoffs.  He threw the ball well enough to win a playoff game.  Pretending that he can't throw the ball with any modicum of accuracy is simply stupid.

One could argue that he has more credentials and has had a better career path, at this point, than your beloved Tom Brady(starts 2 seasons in college, picked in the 6th round, throws three passes his first pro season and only gets on the field because Bledsoe nearly dies from a tackle). 

I'll repeat this since you can't seem to understand.  Virtually every NFL QB has improved his accuracy from his first active pro season(because some sit like Brady) into his first 3-4 seasons.  As I pointed out, if you add 20 completions this season(2 per game and maybe dropped passes are simply caught for this to have happened), he's at 53% and all we're talking about is his inability to throw a spiral.  
1/15/2012 9:23 PM
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Broncos - Ware's the defense? Topic

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