All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Broncos - Ware's the defense?
1/16/2012 8:54 AM
OUTTA THE LEAGUE IN 3-4 YEARS

HARK!

BOOK IT
1/16/2012 8:58 AM
Only if he decides to become a congressman or open a mission in Croatia. 
1/16/2012 10:57 AM
Posted by livemike on 1/15/2012 10:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by willgibson on 1/15/2012 10:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by livemike on 1/15/2012 9:44:00 PM (view original):
I'd guess Demaryius Thomas dropped 2 a game by himself.  But like Tebow this was basically his rookie season and he looks like a kid that will only get better.


Guaranteed growth based on how he looks? lol Let me give you the number of my broker -- he'll have all kinds of **** to sell to you, all with much gaudier numbers than Tebow.

Josh Freeman "looked" a lot better than Tebow in his rookie year and regressed badly this year, livemike. Part of that might have been schedule. Another part might be having defensive coordinators having a little more familiarity with him and building their schemes and game plans accordingly. And Tebow looks a lot more limited than Freeman IMHO.
I meant to say Thomas looks like he'll only get better.

But yah, I think Tebow will improve.  He's a superior athlete with great work ethic so I don't think it's a stretch to expect improvement.  With his current physical style I don't think he has to improve much on the passing side.  Bigger question for me would be how long can he last with the physical style because I think it's unlikely he'll improve enough as a passer to make up for the lack of running threat. 
Yeah, Thomas looks like he's going to be a star.

Tebow showed he could perform at the NFL at times but was dreadful more other than not. I don't doubt his work ethic, which is admirable, or his ability to command a huddle. But there's a significant gap between where his skills are compared to the rest of his cohort (Bradford, Stafford, Freeman, Newton, etc.) or even some of the guys coming out in the next couple of years (Luck, Barkley, RG3).

While it's not impossible to bridge that gap, it also doesn't necessarily follow that high character people who work hard are necessarily going to make those improvements, particularly at the age of 24. As I said, defensive coordinators will adjust and the Broncos will play a much tougher schedule in 2012. I don't expect JT to see this or MIkeT to acknowledge any of these points, but I hope you don't dismiss this as "hate" or quote his Pop Warner stats to me.
1/16/2012 10:58 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2012 7:09:00 AM (view original):

So, if a QB can be accurate enough to complete 2/3 of his passes in college, where I assume he got the ball close enough for them to make spectacular plays, yet is below 50% in the NFL, where I guess receivers become worse, there's no turning back?   He's just lost whatever he had going on just a couple of years ago?

Methinks someone is either drunk or stupid.   And it isn't me.

Why stop at college? Why not look at his stats in high school or Pop Warner. They are equally as relevant as what he did at Florida.
1/16/2012 11:05 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/15/2012 11:30:00 PM (view original):
The funny thing is with Tebow, most of his missed passes are short. I'm not convinced it's a mechanical issue as much as a "there's my receiver, I better hurry up and get the damn ball out at 100mph so I don't get killed" mentality. He lobs the deep ball up nicely most of the time - some are wobbly, but for the most part he seems to be fine. It's the quick short passes where he just winds up and fires and throws it into the ground or wide of his WR. That is something that getting reps and slowing the game down will help. Also, as Elway has said, if Tebow's footwork in the pocket improves, he'll be able to set his feet and make better throws.

Jv's either trying to moke or he has no clue about how young athlete's develop. And I'm also VERY confused as to how a QB improves his completion percentage without improving his accuracy. "They just do it by improving their ability to read defenses, understand offenses, etc" - Really? This is the best you can come up with? Unless all a young QBs incompletions are batted down, picked off or thrown to the wrong spot because he doesn't know the play, improving his accuracy is the way he's going to improve his completion percentage.

Are you allergic to common sense or something?

You clearly don't have a clue about how young athletes develop because most of the "learning" when it comes to technique takes place at a lot younger than age 24. I wouldn't expect you to understand this as you've never played a competitive snap of football.

Tebow might or might not be able to improve his footwork and his mechanics but those improvements are going to be incremental at this age as opposed to when he was a teenager. He'll also have to learn how to improve his "reads", something that he wasn't asked to do in Florida's spread offence. I have no doubt he'll study hard, though, but that's no guarantee he'll improve or bridge the gap, particularly as he'll be going up against a much tougher schedule next year.

1/16/2012 11:32 AM
I deserve a kick in the sack for forgetting this guy:  Alex Smith

Played under the same coach under the same system in college.   Produced pretty much the same results as Tebow(albeit with a weaker supporting case against weaker competiiton).    Came to the NFL and completed 50,58 and 48 percent of his passes his first three seasons.  Has settled in between 59 and 61 over the last three after being considered a bust at QB.   He'll be 1 of 4 QB playing next weekend.   Why is it such a foreign idea that Tebow can't follow a similar path?  One could argue that he already has.
1/16/2012 11:48 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2012 11:32:00 AM (view original):
I deserve a kick in the sack for forgetting this guy:  Alex Smith

Played under the same coach under the same system in college.   Produced pretty much the same results as Tebow(albeit with a weaker supporting case against weaker competiiton).    Came to the NFL and completed 50,58 and 48 percent of his passes his first three seasons.  Has settled in between 59 and 61 over the last three after being considered a bust at QB.   He'll be 1 of 4 QB playing next weekend.   Why is it such a foreign idea that Tebow can't follow a similar path?  One could argue that he already has.
Hey, you know who else played the same system as Tebow  in college? Cam Newton! And he completed 60 per cent of his passes in his rookie year. That's without a complete preseason. 

Nobody is saying it can't be done but there are justifiable questions about whether Tebow can do it. 
1/16/2012 11:56 AM

little willy sure talks to himself a lot. lack of friends, perhaps?

1/16/2012 12:08 PM
I'm assuming he's not addressing me or anything I wrote as he knows I blocked him months ago.   If he is, he's dumber than I thought when I blocked him.
1/16/2012 12:11 PM
Posted by livemike on 12/19/2011 10:05:00 PM (view original):
willgibson > tebow
bump
1/16/2012 12:42 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/16/2012 11:56:00 AM (view original):

little willy sure talks to himself a lot. lack of friends, perhaps?

Feel free to continue parading your ignorance.
1/16/2012 12:48 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2012 12:08:00 PM (view original):
I'm assuming he's not addressing me or anything I wrote as he knows I blocked him months ago.   If he is, he's dumber than I thought when I blocked him.
It's good both Mikey and JT have protected themselves from mockery. Straw men, absurd logic and Pop Warner stats will only take you so far in defending Tim Tebow's performances in the NFL.
1/16/2012 1:30 PM
I have to admire their refusal to admit they may not be 100% right.  They both missed their calling in life; they should have joined the navy because the thing they excel at appears to be going down with the ship.  I thought I respected Tebow as much as anybody before reading this thread.  Apparently I was wrong.
1/16/2012 1:50 PM
100% right about what?   That Tebow could do what virtually every young QB does?    Like improve his game after some actual "live action" in the league?    Tebow isn't VY, Vick or even Ryan Leaf.   He will work on his game instead of feeling entitled.  What else does he have to do besides work his body/game?  Pray and read the Bible?  Visit sick children in the hospital?   He'll get better.   As I said earlier, if he just hits the guys who have two-three steps on the defender, he'll be at 53%.   There is absolutely no reason to think that he could get the ball in the vicinity of the receiver 3 years ago and now he can't.  

Will he become a 65% QB?  I doubt that.   He has mechanical flaws that are so ingrained that they can't be taught out of him.   When things break down, and they do quite a bit in the NFL, he'll revert back to his "style".   And he'll bounce passes to receivers(like McNabb did his entire career).   But every play isn't a broken down scramble play.   And the game will slow down for him just like it does for everyone else.  So much of QBing is reads and timing.   That doesn't come overnight.
1/16/2012 2:00 PM
They seem to be attributing their flawed arguments to us. I've never once said (and I don't think Mike has either) that Tebow is a great QB or that he had a great statistical season - if you can find me a post where I said that, cough it up.

I've said he was effective enough this season for his team to win 8 of his 13 starts, and there's no reason to think he won't improve. The haters are saying "nuh uh! he was bad, therefore there's no reason to believe he can improve!!"  Which is more flawed than you say our argument is.

I believe Tebow CAN improve as a passer - so by all means, prove to me I'm wrong. Someone show me what factual evidence they have to support that Tebow can't improve on his FIRST full season as a starter. I mean, aside from the blatantly stupid and false assertion that rookies never get better as their careers progress.
of 191
All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Broncos - Ware's the defense?

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.