All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Broncos - Ware's the defense?
1/24/2012 11:10 AM
You realize that the Bills are a loltastic example, since they traded a 1st round pick for Drew Bledsoe and his gargantuan contract following a 3-13 season during their non-playoff streak, right?  Was that them resigning themselves to losing?
1/24/2012 11:22 AM
Posted by deanod on 1/24/2012 10:55:00 AM (view original):
You and jtp are bff's these days, you always agree with each other.
Not this time.  He's arguing a retarded point.   I can't side with that.

"The Broncos are going to try to win next season.   Not like the dozen teams I listed who are fine with losing!!!"

See, that's retarded because GMs/coaches aren't kept around when they lose.  I think that's part of the reason Fox/Elway won't get behind The Great Tebow.   THEY don't think they can win with him.   So they would rather use someone else.    In truth, I think putting Elway in the front office was a stupid, stupid move by Bowlen that might indicate he has no desire to win.  Elway has no track record as a talent evaluator but he's a goddam hero in Denver.   If he Matt Millens it, how long does Bowlen HAVE to keep the legend around?   Far longer than he should.
1/24/2012 11:31 AM
Elway thinks Tebow sucks, so that's a checkmark in favor of his talent evaluation skills
1/24/2012 11:31 AM
Posted by The Taint on 1/24/2012 11:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/24/2012 11:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 1/24/2012 10:59:00 AM (view original):
Bad front offices, especially where drafting and free agency are bungled year after year and doubly especially in a day and age when one bad top five pick(contract) can set your franchise back 5 years.  Do you think Al Davis and the Raiders didn't want to win?  So all of a sudden Cinci wants to win...so they draft Dalton and AJ Green....or did they just finally get it right?
Not what I said. I said Brown made a decision that could have really hurt his team, but fortunately Dalton turned in a ROTY-worthy performance.
I'm just telling you why these teams have sucked for a lengthy period.  It has zero to do with not wanting to win.
I never said teams don't want to win. I said they're content if they don't. If a team does something for 5-10 years that clearly isn't working, that should be a very good indication. It doesn't take that long to see something isn't working. A team that wants to win, after 2-3 years would say "damn, this approach really isn't working - we need to make the necessary changes to our approach so the sucking stops."

The Bills and Browns, to name the recent examples, have been doing things the same crappy way for a decade or more - that indicates that they really don't care if they keep getting the same results.
1/24/2012 11:32 AM
So hiring a guy with a history of going to Super Bowls...including the only one for the Seahawks, is a move to say they don't care.  Dumber than normal.
1/24/2012 11:33 AM
Posted by deanod on 1/24/2012 11:31:00 AM (view original):
Elway thinks Tebow sucks, so that's a checkmark in favor of his talent evaluation skills

How will you have time to blow Elway and Newton?

1/24/2012 11:37 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/24/2012 11:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by deanod on 1/24/2012 11:31:00 AM (view original):
Elway thinks Tebow sucks, so that's a checkmark in favor of his talent evaluation skills

How will you have time to blow Elway and Newton?

I won't, which is why I shall focus on Cam.
1/24/2012 11:37 AM
Posted by The Taint on 1/24/2012 11:32:00 AM (view original):
So hiring a guy with a history of going to Super Bowls...including the only one for the Seahawks, is a move to say they don't care.  Dumber than normal.
Two seasons - 5 wins, 4 wins - look at him go.

If Elway can't be considered a good GM even though he is a HOF QB "with a history of going to Super Bowls", then Holmgren's coaching pedigree means nothing for his GM abilities either.
1/24/2012 11:38 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/24/2012 11:31:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 1/24/2012 11:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/24/2012 11:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 1/24/2012 10:59:00 AM (view original):
Bad front offices, especially where drafting and free agency are bungled year after year and doubly especially in a day and age when one bad top five pick(contract) can set your franchise back 5 years.  Do you think Al Davis and the Raiders didn't want to win?  So all of a sudden Cinci wants to win...so they draft Dalton and AJ Green....or did they just finally get it right?
Not what I said. I said Brown made a decision that could have really hurt his team, but fortunately Dalton turned in a ROTY-worthy performance.
I'm just telling you why these teams have sucked for a lengthy period.  It has zero to do with not wanting to win.
I never said teams don't want to win. I said they're content if they don't. If a team does something for 5-10 years that clearly isn't working, that should be a very good indication. It doesn't take that long to see something isn't working. A team that wants to win, after 2-3 years would say "damn, this approach really isn't working - we need to make the necessary changes to our approach so the sucking stops."

The Bills and Browns, to name the recent examples, have been doing things the same crappy way for a decade or more - that indicates that they really don't care if they keep getting the same results.
Actually, since both have changed coaches/GMs/etc repeatedly in that time, they've been doing things in a variety of crappy ways. 
1/24/2012 11:38 AM
btw I don't rate Cam higher than the normal person, you guys just rate him way lower.

if you did an NFL dynasty draft, he's prob the #2 pick behind Rodgers.  maybe 3 or 4 if you want to go brees/brady before him, but they give you a much smaller window.
1/24/2012 11:40 AM
Has ownership changed? One could argue that's the reason for the string of crappy coaches and GMs.
1/24/2012 11:41 AM
Posted by deanod on 1/24/2012 11:38:00 AM (view original):
btw I don't rate Cam higher than the normal person, you guys just rate him way lower.

if you did an NFL dynasty draft, he's prob the #2 pick behind Rodgers.  maybe 3 or 4 if you want to go brees/brady before him, but they give you a much smaller window.
I'm taking Eli and Big Ben before Cam. And I hate Big Ben.
1/24/2012 11:42 AM
This whole thing is skewed because JT is comparing it to what he sees his favorite baseball team doing.  The NFL isn't MLB - the option to spend nothing and make a profit off a base of attendance and revenue sharing isn't there.  Teams have to spent most of the cap.  Sure, you can save a few bucks by spending the absolute minimum, but the only real option to bringing in more money in the NFL is increasing interest in the product.
1/24/2012 11:42 AM
Cam Newton has had one great season(at Auburn) and a fine rookie season in the NFL.    You can't say "They'll figure Tebow out once they have enough tape!!" and pretend the same can't be true of Newton.  I don't know how much "figuring out" can be done with either but I think Cam is a low character guy who stands a good chance of falling off next season, VY-style. 
1/24/2012 11:43 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/24/2012 11:40:00 AM (view original):
Has ownership changed? One could argue that's the reason for the string of crappy coaches and GMs.
You can't fire ownership.  The fact that they can't identify quality football people is hardly conclusive proof that they aren't trying to do so.
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