All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Broncos - Ware's the defense?
1/24/2012 11:45 AM
Again, you're missing the point between not wanting to win, and not caring. Being content to lose doesn't automatically mean you don't want to win.
1/24/2012 11:47 AM
Posted by AlCheez on 1/24/2012 11:42:00 AM (view original):
This whole thing is skewed because JT is comparing it to what he sees his favorite baseball team doing.  The NFL isn't MLB - the option to spend nothing and make a profit off a base of attendance and revenue sharing isn't there.  Teams have to spent most of the cap.  Sure, you can save a few bucks by spending the absolute minimum, but the only real option to bringing in more money in the NFL is increasing interest in the product.
No, Angelos is just a very good example of the point I'm trying to make. There are owners in every sport who view it strictly as a business and have no passion for the sport itself. All they care about is making money, and if they can do that without overspending and putting a fantastic product on the field/ice/court, they'll do it. I'm not saying it's a rampant problem, but there are probably at last 2-3 owners in each of the four major sports who fit that description.
1/24/2012 11:49 AM
Content means satisfied.    That certainly means one lacks desire to do/have something different.   You should look up the meanings of words sometimes.
1/24/2012 11:52 AM
I'd imagine you're content with your current income. Does that mean if you had the chance at a million dollars, you wouldn't pursue it?

Perhaps you should learn a few meanings. Being content with what you have and still wanting something more are not mutually exclusive ideas.
1/24/2012 11:54 AM
OK, so owners who are content with losing don't have the chance to pursue something different(like the chance to win)?   Or they just don't do it? 

Make some sense.
1/24/2012 11:56 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/24/2012 10:54:00 AM (view original):
Why did you have to group me with jtpops?   We were on the same side this time.

As far as being difficult, I simply ask people to elaborate what they mean when they make a seemingly stupid comment.   I'm sort of a humanitarian in those cases because I'm giving them a chance to clarify rather than assume they're just stupid.  When someone says "He can't be an effective QB if he can't complete 55% of his passes", I want to know why 55% is magical.  Why 53% is just totally unacceptable?  Stuff like that.
LMAO.  Sorry Mike. 
1/24/2012 11:57 AM
Let's say you're making a solid income. You're content with it, but you want more - you want more comforts in your life, more opportunities, etc. You have two options:

1) Work your *** off and exhaust every opportunity to make as much as you can and make your "dreams" a reality

OR

2) Buy a lottery ticket.

Both produce results. Option 1 produces more results, Option 2 produces greater results with less frequency, but also less effort and expense. Some owners go for Option 2 - rather than dish out the money for that superstar player, put an average-to-decent team on the field every year and hope to hit the jackpot.
1/24/2012 12:00 PM
Truth be told, I know what you're trying to say.  I just think you're putting it in the dumbest way possible and assuming "your guy" is the kind of owner you want.

ALL of them are in it from a business aspect.   However, some have a burning desire to win like a coach(and that may even come from job security).  Doesn't mean they'll keep throwing money away but, when they go to bed at night, they're thinking about how to shore up their weak pass rush.  They're the guys that care about the team.  And it may not be because they have to win for winning's sake, it may be because they want to be on the TV a lot.   And that happens more when you win.

Owners, GMs, coaches making statements in January isn't going to indicate if you have an owner with a coach mentality(win, win, win) or a business man mentality(Investing 3m here will net me how much?).
1/24/2012 12:03 PM
Let me get this straight....  John Elway is potentially a good GM because he is a HOF QB with a history of going to Super Bowls.  OK.  I then hope that the Jets get Jim Kelly to be our next GM.  That would be SO AWESOME
1/24/2012 12:05 PM
And I never said that to begin with. I just said it sounds like the Broncos are looking to make some noise this off-season, and I hope that's the case.

Last year in Denver, there really was a "no illusions, we're going to suck this season, so let's evaluate some talent" approach. Obviously they were trying to win or they wouldn't have made the playoffs. But I guarantee that expectation wasn't there when the season started.
1/24/2012 12:06 PM
Now, don't get yer panties in a ruffle, JT.  I think John Elway WILL be a good GM.  And it's because of this.... 

Elway is currently co-owner of the Arena Football team Colorado Crush, a position he has held since 2002. In February 2007, Elway was elected chairman of the Arena Football League's executive committee.[20] On August 4, 2009 the Arena Football League announced an indefinite suspension of operations.[21] Elway was one of the 17 remaining franchise owners that voted to suspend operations indefinitely.[22]

Elway is the owner of two steakhouse restaurants, each named "Elway's": One is located in the upscale Cherry Creek shopping district, and the other is in the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in downtown Denver.[23]

Elway used to own five auto dealerships, called John Elway Autos, in the Denver area. He sold them to AutoNation for $82.5 million in 1997. In December 2006, Elway ended the nine-year licensing agreement with AutoNation Inc., removing his name from Denver-area dealerships. At the time, Elway said the move could allow him to get back into the auto business under his own name.[23] He still owns two Toyota Scion dealerships, one in Manhattan Beach, California and another in Ontario, California[24][25] and a Nissan dealership in Riverside, California.[26]


Not because he was a HOF QB who went to Super Bowls.


1/24/2012 12:06 PM
I use my teams as examples, jtpops.   Al Davis and George Steinbrenner were great businessmen with a desire to win.   But neither threw money away(at least not money they couldn't afford to lose).   Davis pitted LA/Oakland against one another to get favorable stadium deals.   Steinbrenner once talked of moving to NJ for the same reason.  Davis was always suing somebody.  George constantly berated people he felt was stealing from him due to non-performance.   Both made money and both wanted to win.    I have no idea if their kids are the same way.   I don't think Hal and Hank are. 
1/24/2012 12:07 PM
Posted by eschwartz67 on 1/24/2012 12:03:00 PM (view original):
Let me get this straight....  John Elway is potentially a good GM because he is a HOF QB with a history of going to Super Bowls.  OK.  I then hope that the Jets get Jim Kelly to be our next GM.  That would be SO AWESOME
Dammit E, for the 500th time, read the whole effin post/conversation.

Taint said that the Browns were trying to win because they took a coach with lots of Super Bowl experience and named him president. And yet all I hear about Elway is how he has to prove himself because his on-field accolades mean nothing. So which is it? If Elway's accolades mean nothing (which is fair, he has to prove himself as VP), then Holmgren's coaching accolades mean nothing as well.
1/24/2012 12:14 PM
He made the Arena Football league last for 2 years after they were going to shut it down.  When he saw it couldn't be salvaged, he was willing to dump it.

His steak houses are among the most respected and constantly filled in the Denver area

His car dealerships are/were REMARKABLY respected in the Denver area.  So much so, that he sold them for almost 100 million, and then was wise enough to know he could do it all over again, and sell again in 2020 or so.  He is a VERY shrewd business man.  And he knows what sells. 

For now, he is willing to let Tebow-mania work for his team, knowing that whomever he gets to QB the team, without MAJOR upgrades to numerous positions, they likely are not Super Bowl contenders.  Playoffs, yes.  Super Bowl, no.  So, let Tebow try to show what he could do this year.  Elway saw what we all saw.  A guy who when given a chance to win a game because the other team screwed up badly allowing the Broncos to remain in the game, or the defense of the Broncos played so well despite Tebow to allow Denver to stay in the game...  found a way to win.  Otherwise (other than the Steelers & Vikings games), he was totally overmatched.  But, since they went 8-5 with Tebow and 1-4 without him this season, the fans love him.  And he will actively search for someone who he thinks can get Denver to a championship level while Tebow tries to become a more accurate throwing QB.  And knowing Elway...  he will likely find that guy.  I dont doubt that Denver will have a playoff/Super Bowl worthy QB before opening day 2013.  And his name wont be Tim Tebow.
1/24/2012 12:17 PM
I'm not sure slapping your name on a steak house makes you a good football man.
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