Another point: What great weapons did Brady have pre-Welker? I'll wait here while you find them. (directed towards bistiza)
An offensive line that rarely let him get touched (he's had that almost every season of his career) and a talented defense (not as common as the offense but was present in several of the years).
He also had a great RB in Corey Dillon during the one SB winning season.
The point still stands - Brady, over the course of his career, has had less talent on his offense than other elite QBs.
First, Brady isn't an "elite QB". He's hyped as that all the time, but when it comes to actually MAKING PLAYS, he doesn't get it done on the level of anyone else considered to be a legit elite QB.
I see Peyton and Eli Manning make plays. I've seen Roethisberger, Rodgers, Brees, and even Kurt Warner make plays that led to their teams getting key wins. Yet with Brady, his biggest attribute is his ability to not mess things up when the team around him has already done enough or will do enough to win the games with or without him.
You plug any of those guys I mentioned in as the NE QB instead of Brady and they probably have five SB rings and not just the three the team carried him to.
But, as I said, everyone sucked before they got to NE and Brady magically made them better.
Brady didn't make anyone better. The players were simply good within the system. In fact, some of them made Brady look better than he is.
Randy Moss was the best wideout on the planet and made Daunte Culpepper look all-world when he played with him, then he shows up and suddenly Brady is setting records. He made Brady better.
Combine that offensive line with those receivers and put any of those guys I named in place of Brady and the records Brady has would be theirs and they would be bigger records.
As far as I'm concerned, Brady is the most over-rated player in NFL history because the gap between his actual abilities and his hype is phenomenally HUGE.
Brady gets far too much credit for the three SB wins. Those were talented teams that would have won with him or any other half decent NFL QB under center, including especially the first one against the Rams where the defense won the game.
Brady doesn't take enough flack for the two SB losses. Anyone remember that blown pass to Welker in the SB that probably gives Brady a fourth ring? Instead Eli Manning gets a second by doing what Brady is too often credited for doing, which leads me to my next point.
Brady is billed as "clutch" but he failed massively many times that no one seems to remember, including 4th and 2 against Indy where he blew yet another pass (to Faulk) which would have gotten the first down they so desperately needed.
Without him the team goes 11-5 by using a QB who had never even started a single game in the NFL before that season. This proves there isn't much drop off on that team, with that talent, and in that system when someone else steps under center.
Brady is basically what Trent Dilfer was to the Ravens when they won the SB. He's a system QB that is asked not to screw up and lose games when the talent on the rest of the team helps them win.
The difference between Dilfer and Brady is that Brady has done it for more years (to be fair, he was younger when he started in the system) and has managed not to screw up when he has been carried by a talented team to five SBs and three SB wins as opposed to one appearance and one win.
I don't see anyone saying Trent Dilfer was "elite" or destined for the HOF, but Brady's talented teams have made sure he gets that praise, which he doesn't deserve in my opinion.
He's good, but he's not great, and he's certainly not "elite" just because he happens to play QB and doesn't screw up a talented team that would win with or without him.