All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Makes me sick...
2/8/2013 10:03 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 2/8/2013 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 9:37:00 AM (view original):
Do you truly believe that?   Don't you think, if what's been believed/taught for 150ish year, was proven to be bullshit, that many would question anything and everything that science has "proven" now and in the future?   Do you really think scientists are open to that type of scrutiny?
What's more likely to happen is that the "old" scientists who refuse to accept new evidence and change/scrap their theories are going to eventually be surpassed by the "new" scientists who take on the new evidence and new theories and run with it, and become the new mainstream.

It wouldn't happen overnight, might take 10, 20, 30 years, but that's probably how it would play out in the long run. 
This is an acceptable answer.     Old Joe, who developed a theory in 1970, would demand more evidence that his idea was trash.   He'd either get it or he wouldn't and he'd retire.  He's not going to say "Damn, looks about right to me" at first glance.
2/8/2013 10:08 AM
What's more likely to happen is that the "old" scientists who refuse to accept new evidence and change/scrap their theories are going to eventually be surpassed by the "new" scientists who take on the new evidence and new theories and run with it, and become the new mainstream.
This must be why so many iconic theories that supposedly support evolution have been debunked years ago and are still upheld by many people and even taught in public schools as fact. I listed two of them several pages back, so don't go saying I never gave examples.





2/8/2013 10:11 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 8:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/7/2013 11:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2013 8:55:00 PM (view original):
Do you think animals are bred for size?  Like breed a big bull with a big cow in hopes of a big calf?

If you say "Yes", do you think it's possible to breed for intelligence? 

If you say "Yes", do you think a smart monkey would be a better provider thus making him more attractive to the smart females?

Do you see where I'm heading?
There's a difference. If you want to try and develop a freakishly strong animal, sure, you find the biggest, strongest parents. But that's not creating a new species.

I already said I think each species can adapt certain physical characteristics based on their surroundings (or in this case, heritage) - but that's still not the creation of a new species. If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Seems to me if there was need for them to evolve, then all monkeys would have evolved or died. Or better yet, in response to your question - can a human impregnate a monkey? If we came from monkeys, why can we not cross breed with them?

Breeding two big cows to get a big calf is not the same as something evolving into an entirely different species.
OK, I disagree but, since neither of us knows what could happen over millions/billions of years, let's try another route.

God is all powerful, right?   If he wanted to dissipate earth, he could, right?  Or, maybe just remove humans from here, right?

Do you think God could have created earth, populated it with lesser species and let things move at their own pace?   Do you think He could have watched the smarter monkeys mate and become "better"?   Do you think He could have said "Man, that first run of monkeys was pretty sloppy.   I'm gonna create a better monkey!"    And, as it were, he eventually created a species that resembles us today?
Sure, it's possible. But not likely. If God is all powerful, you think he's going to create something sloppy? Do you think God is caught off guard or surprised by things? "Gee, I really thought I got the monkey right that time....*sigh*, back to the drawing board".

Let's put it this way - let's say you want to plant a tree in your backyard to provide more shade for your house. What do you do? You plant a sapling and let it grow over time. Now, if you have the power to create a full grown tree in your yard instantly, are you a) going to plant a sapling and watch it grow, b) create a piece of crap tree that you have to recreate, or c) plant a full grown, developed, healthy tree to give you what you need?

People think it's foolish to suggest that God could create something at an advanced stage (the "old rocks" theory as bad_luck likes to call it), even though that makes a lot more sense than him deciding to let things evolve from over billions of years. If you have the power to speed up the process of something, you do it.
2/8/2013 10:17 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 9:58:00 AM (view original):
Scientists do not wanted to be discredited.   It's insane to believe that.   If someone else stumbles upon something that discredits their work, there's not much they can do.   However, the natural human response to being discredited is "No way!" 

You're implying that scientists are not human and, therefore, do not have human thoughts/emotions. 
No, we're saying that scientists are not a monolithic group. There's competition for jobs and money and notoriety.
2/8/2013 10:20 AM
Beats me what makes a higher power happy.    Remember Noah's Ark?    That was sort of a do-over, no?    Hell, even Adam and Eve wasn't right, you know, with the forbidden fruit and all.     Doesn't sound like everything was perfect all the time, does it?
2/8/2013 10:29 AM
sodom and gommorah!
studio 54!
wrigleyfest!
2/8/2013 10:40 AM
Posted by toddcommish on 2/8/2013 12:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/8/2013 12:11:00 AM (view original):
Sorry, is this your attempt at being literal? No, we didn't go directly from monkeys to humans, but according to evolution we are descendants of monkeys. Who oddly enough are still here, yet the links in between are all extinct because they evolved or died.

You should probably stick to bartending.
Technically, the theory is that humans and monkeys evolved from a shared ancestor.  You clearly don't understand the theory of evolution as it applies to humans.  Either that or you like misrepresenting counter-arguments.
Yes, this...though it's apes, not monkeys.
2/8/2013 10:41 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 10:20:00 AM (view original):
Beats me what makes a higher power happy.    Remember Noah's Ark?    That was sort of a do-over, no?    Hell, even Adam and Eve wasn't right, you know, with the forbidden fruit and all.     Doesn't sound like everything was perfect all the time, does it?
I'm not going to claim to be an expert on all thing's God, but all of those issues have to do with free will, which God has knowingly given humanity. Yes, the flood wiped out an evil world to give it a "fresh start", but not once did God say "man, I really screwed up with these humans - time to make something else." We're imperfect beings, but that doesn't mean God is surprised by anything that's happened. Beyond that, I don't have all the answers, and unlike bad_luck, I'm okay admitting that.
2/8/2013 10:43 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/8/2013 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 10:20:00 AM (view original):
Beats me what makes a higher power happy.    Remember Noah's Ark?    That was sort of a do-over, no?    Hell, even Adam and Eve wasn't right, you know, with the forbidden fruit and all.     Doesn't sound like everything was perfect all the time, does it?
I'm not going to claim to be an expert on all thing's God, but all of those issues have to do with free will, which God has knowingly given humanity. Yes, the flood wiped out an evil world to give it a "fresh start", but not once did God say "man, I really screwed up with these humans - time to make something else." We're imperfect beings, but that doesn't mean God is surprised by anything that's happened. Beyond that, I don't have all the answers, and unlike bad_luck, I'm okay admitting that.
So were dinosaurs a screw up also?
2/8/2013 10:44 AM
Would you say knowingly giving humans free will is an ideal situation?    You'd think a higher power would know that's tossing a monkey wrench into everything.
2/8/2013 10:45 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/8/2013 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 8:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/7/2013 11:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2013 8:55:00 PM (view original):
Do you think animals are bred for size?  Like breed a big bull with a big cow in hopes of a big calf?

If you say "Yes", do you think it's possible to breed for intelligence? 

If you say "Yes", do you think a smart monkey would be a better provider thus making him more attractive to the smart females?

Do you see where I'm heading?
There's a difference. If you want to try and develop a freakishly strong animal, sure, you find the biggest, strongest parents. But that's not creating a new species.

I already said I think each species can adapt certain physical characteristics based on their surroundings (or in this case, heritage) - but that's still not the creation of a new species. If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Seems to me if there was need for them to evolve, then all monkeys would have evolved or died. Or better yet, in response to your question - can a human impregnate a monkey? If we came from monkeys, why can we not cross breed with them?

Breeding two big cows to get a big calf is not the same as something evolving into an entirely different species.
OK, I disagree but, since neither of us knows what could happen over millions/billions of years, let's try another route.

God is all powerful, right?   If he wanted to dissipate earth, he could, right?  Or, maybe just remove humans from here, right?

Do you think God could have created earth, populated it with lesser species and let things move at their own pace?   Do you think He could have watched the smarter monkeys mate and become "better"?   Do you think He could have said "Man, that first run of monkeys was pretty sloppy.   I'm gonna create a better monkey!"    And, as it were, he eventually created a species that resembles us today?
Sure, it's possible. But not likely. If God is all powerful, you think he's going to create something sloppy? Do you think God is caught off guard or surprised by things? "Gee, I really thought I got the monkey right that time....*sigh*, back to the drawing board".

Let's put it this way - let's say you want to plant a tree in your backyard to provide more shade for your house. What do you do? You plant a sapling and let it grow over time. Now, if you have the power to create a full grown tree in your yard instantly, are you a) going to plant a sapling and watch it grow, b) create a piece of crap tree that you have to recreate, or c) plant a full grown, developed, healthy tree to give you what you need?

People think it's foolish to suggest that God could create something at an advanced stage (the "old rocks" theory as bad_luck likes to call it), even though that makes a lot more sense than him deciding to let things evolve from over billions of years. If you have the power to speed up the process of something, you do it.
This is where the religious argument loses me.  God already created something sloppy - us.  If you want to play the "that couldn't have happened because God is all-powerful and would have done it differently" card, then why does he allow innocent children to suffer and die?  It seems an all-powerful God would do THAT differently.  And if that's accepted as just "part of His plan," then why couldn't populating the earth with single-celled organisms and watching them grow and evolve have been "part of his plan" too?
2/8/2013 10:45 AM
Posted by The Taint on 2/8/2013 10:43:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/8/2013 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 10:20:00 AM (view original):
Beats me what makes a higher power happy.    Remember Noah's Ark?    That was sort of a do-over, no?    Hell, even Adam and Eve wasn't right, you know, with the forbidden fruit and all.     Doesn't sound like everything was perfect all the time, does it?
I'm not going to claim to be an expert on all thing's God, but all of those issues have to do with free will, which God has knowingly given humanity. Yes, the flood wiped out an evil world to give it a "fresh start", but not once did God say "man, I really screwed up with these humans - time to make something else." We're imperfect beings, but that doesn't mean God is surprised by anything that's happened. Beyond that, I don't have all the answers, and unlike bad_luck, I'm okay admitting that.
So were dinosaurs a screw up also?
jtpops comes from the Carl Everett school of thought on dinosaurs.
2/8/2013 10:46 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 10:44:00 AM (view original):
Would you say knowingly giving humans free will is an ideal situation?    You'd think a higher power would know that's tossing a monkey wrench into everything.
Exactly
2/8/2013 10:47 AM
Posted by examinerebb on 2/8/2013 10:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/8/2013 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 8:07:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/7/2013 11:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2013 8:55:00 PM (view original):
Do you think animals are bred for size?  Like breed a big bull with a big cow in hopes of a big calf?

If you say "Yes", do you think it's possible to breed for intelligence? 

If you say "Yes", do you think a smart monkey would be a better provider thus making him more attractive to the smart females?

Do you see where I'm heading?
There's a difference. If you want to try and develop a freakishly strong animal, sure, you find the biggest, strongest parents. But that's not creating a new species.

I already said I think each species can adapt certain physical characteristics based on their surroundings (or in this case, heritage) - but that's still not the creation of a new species. If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Seems to me if there was need for them to evolve, then all monkeys would have evolved or died. Or better yet, in response to your question - can a human impregnate a monkey? If we came from monkeys, why can we not cross breed with them?

Breeding two big cows to get a big calf is not the same as something evolving into an entirely different species.
OK, I disagree but, since neither of us knows what could happen over millions/billions of years, let's try another route.

God is all powerful, right?   If he wanted to dissipate earth, he could, right?  Or, maybe just remove humans from here, right?

Do you think God could have created earth, populated it with lesser species and let things move at their own pace?   Do you think He could have watched the smarter monkeys mate and become "better"?   Do you think He could have said "Man, that first run of monkeys was pretty sloppy.   I'm gonna create a better monkey!"    And, as it were, he eventually created a species that resembles us today?
Sure, it's possible. But not likely. If God is all powerful, you think he's going to create something sloppy? Do you think God is caught off guard or surprised by things? "Gee, I really thought I got the monkey right that time....*sigh*, back to the drawing board".

Let's put it this way - let's say you want to plant a tree in your backyard to provide more shade for your house. What do you do? You plant a sapling and let it grow over time. Now, if you have the power to create a full grown tree in your yard instantly, are you a) going to plant a sapling and watch it grow, b) create a piece of crap tree that you have to recreate, or c) plant a full grown, developed, healthy tree to give you what you need?

People think it's foolish to suggest that God could create something at an advanced stage (the "old rocks" theory as bad_luck likes to call it), even though that makes a lot more sense than him deciding to let things evolve from over billions of years. If you have the power to speed up the process of something, you do it.
This is where the religious argument loses me.  God already created something sloppy - us.  If you want to play the "that couldn't have happened because God is all-powerful and would have done it differently" card, then why does he allow innocent children to suffer and die?  It seems an all-powerful God would do THAT differently.  And if that's accepted as just "part of His plan," then why couldn't populating the earth with single-celled organisms and watching them grow and evolve have been "part of his plan" too?
Double exactly....cancer is part of the master plan? 
2/8/2013 10:50 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2013 10:44:00 AM (view original):
Would you say knowingly giving humans free will is an ideal situation?    You'd think a higher power would know that's tossing a monkey wrench into everything.
That's who God is. What value do love and respect have if you have to force someone to give them to you? God wants to be chosen, thus he gives us free will. Unfortunately, that also means we have the freedom to choose evil. This is a fallen world, but that doesn't mean God isn't still in control.
of 60
All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Makes me sick...

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.