All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Makes me sick...
2/13/2013 7:48 PM
Posted by moranis on 2/11/2013 3:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/11/2013 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Creationism goes way beyond the earth.  Creationism goes for the entire universe.  Who created the "incredibly advanced alien species"?
and that brings me back to my point from earlier, who created God? If everything must have a creator, than God must have been created by something?

That is why I believe the universe, life, etc. has always been there in some form or another.  Just like those that believe God did everything believe God has always been there.  There doesn't actually have to be a beginning an end.

I agree with you, which is why arguments about the origins of the universe are useless. Makes my brain hurt just thinking about it. Timelessness (whether it be God or the universe itself) is something that clearly must exist on some level, but it's something we as humans will never be able to grasp because we live in time.
2/14/2013 9:09 AM
We don't have to fully grasp the concept of timelessness to make some logical deductions about it.

I personally do not believe the universe itself is timeless. Not only does the big bang theory itself suggest otherwise (if you believe in that theory) but we know of nothing that is timeless outside of a deity or other mythological idea.

2/14/2013 11:26 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 2/13/2013 7:44:00 PM (view original):
bistiza, I don't disagree with your points in this thread, but as I said in the Brady thread, anytime someone continually says "I wonder what Bob is saying, I have him blocked" or "I have Bob blocked, but I bet he's saying...", it's a sure sign that Bob isn't blocked. Don't make yourself look more foolish.
It's not possible for him to look more foolish.
2/14/2013 12:08 PM
Posted by bistiza on 2/14/2013 9:09:00 AM (view original):
We don't have to fully grasp the concept of timelessness to make some logical deductions about it.

I personally do not believe the universe itself is timeless. Not only does the big bang theory itself suggest otherwise (if you believe in that theory) but we know of nothing that is timeless outside of a deity or other mythological idea.

we know of a deity?  since when?

Your assumptions about a deity or other mythological idea certainly can conform to the notion that there has always been matter and life in one form or another.  you are just picking and choosing what you want, but not applying it equally.  That is the problem with faith, it blinds you to anything that doesn't conform to the faith.

2/14/2013 1:48 PM
So you've never heard of God? You've never heard of any other deities? Maybe you should punch them up on a search engine and start reading.

I'm not making any assumptions.

2/14/2013 2:17 PM
Posted by bistiza on 2/14/2013 1:48:00 PM (view original):
So you've never heard of God? You've never heard of any other deities? Maybe you should punch them up on a search engine and start reading.

I'm not making any assumptions.

You said we know of nothing timeless other than a deity. I'm assuming he means we don't "know" of any deity. Deities are made up.
2/14/2013 2:25 PM
Posted by bistiza on 2/14/2013 9:09:00 AM (view original):
We don't have to fully grasp the concept of timelessness to make some logical deductions about it.

I personally do not believe the universe itself is timeless. Not only does the big bang theory itself suggest otherwise (if you believe in that theory) but we know of nothing that is timeless outside of a deity or other mythological idea.

Evidently you don't understand the Big Bang Theory in very much depth...  Not that this surprises me.
2/14/2013 2:27 PM
This thread has gone from a murderer (Ray Lewis) who got away with it... all the way to a metaphysical discussion around creation/big bang cosmology.
2/14/2013 2:31 PM
2/14/2013 2:33 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 2/14/2013 2:31:00 PM (view original):
Always the winner.
2/14/2013 2:38 PM
dahs,

If you want me to take you the least bit seriously, then qualify your attacks on me with some sort of detail that can be addressed. Otherwise it appears your only intent was to offer a pointless insult.



2/14/2013 2:41 PM
Why should he back it up? You don't back up your arguments. The one time you did (young earth), you went back and deleted your one evidence post.
2/14/2013 3:02 PM
The Big Bang theory does NOT claim that the universe is not timeless; in fact, quite the opposite.  The theory suggests that time would not have existed prior to the Big Bang, but all the quarks that became all the matter and energy in the universe always existed, they were simply held together in a point in space by their own gravity.  We have reasonably understanding of this sort of phenomenon since it is in most respects quite similar to a black hole.  The argument is that the entire contents of the universe were contained within the effective equivalent of one massive black hole.  This is not a perfect description, but it's close enough.  Then at some point the Big Bang occurs and the quarks are blasted out in all directions, based on essentially a random fluctuation.  There are, in fact, well-respected physicists who believe that there have been multiple Big Bangs - that ultimately the universe will run out of energy and collapse on itself, then at some point a similar random fluctuation causes another Big Bang, and that this cycle has been repeating itself and will continue repeating itself in perpetuity.  Unfortunately the math behind this theory is fuzzy; it's difficult for anyone to explain under any circumstances the accelerating expansion of the universe, which is how we arrive at dark energy.  Frankly, nobody knows what dark energy is supposed to be, and the only meaningful evidence for it IS the accelerating expansion of the universe, but it's little better than a fudge factor in the math at this point.  Given that we don't well understand the present behavior of the universe and what's driving it, it's difficult to prove or disprove any theory about the long-term fate of the universe, IE will it expand forever until everything is so isolated from everything else that matter no longer interacts, or will it ultimately collapse back into itself.  But you certainly can't easily DISPROVE the idea that the universe has cyclically repeated itself, though I think more people doubt this theory than espouse it.
2/14/2013 3:07 PM
<looking for aspirin>
2/14/2013 4:04 PM
To be fair, the characterization of the early universe in the Big Bang theory is also very handwavy.  As we approach time = 0 from the Big Bang event there is a mathematical singularity resulting from the fact that even under relativistic conditions the temperature, pressure, and density approach infinity.  That makes the math impossible, and it's generally assumed that even General Relativity breaks down at such conditions (indeed, this may occur in black holes as well).  So there's a lot of guesswork in a lot of this, which is why it's still called the Big Bang Theory even though it is well supported by a number of factors, including the fact that it gives a very accurate age to the universe which seems to agree with all other aging mechanisms for the universe.
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