All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Vote for best group of drafted QBs
3/1/2013 7:59 PM
OK, my bad.  I'm doing the Montana worship from memory.  Wendell rushed for more than 60 yards that game?  I'm pretty sure Montana had 59 yards or something like that.  I know Wendell had a better receiving day than rushing (I have the game on VHS).

Anyway, you're free to believe anything you want.  You're free to think that Fran Tarkenton was better than Troy Aikman, Joe Namath was better than Ken Stabler, and the earth was formed 10,000 years ago.  It's all wrong, but you're free to believe it.

I'm trying to improve your understanding.  If that falls on deaf ears, so be it.
3/1/2013 8:07 PM
Good memory. I looked up the box score because I thought it was interesting. Wendell had 65 yards. Montana had 59 and a TD.

At the end of the day, I didn't see these guys play, so I don't know anything for sure. I do believe that winning Super Bowls isn't as much of an individual achievement as you do.
3/1/2013 8:10 PM
Actually, I did see Montana play. My earliest memory of him involved Leonard Marshall. :)
3/1/2013 8:56 PM
See, that's the thing.  To your mind, quarterbacking started with the stat monsters of Marino and Favre.  Way back in the dark ages where QBs called their own plays, there was a defense called the bump-and-run where corners basically assaulted the wide receivers continually down the field.  As long as they stopped the mugging as soon as the ball was thrown, everything was peachy.  You had lower completion rates, higher interception rates, and a lot more deep throws. 

The goal was still the same.  WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.
3/1/2013 9:02 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/1/2013 5:50:00 PM (view original):
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-lord-postseason-stats/5048/
So QB's have the biggest hand in wins and losses in the playoffs?  Who would have known?
3/2/2013 1:18 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 3/1/2013 8:56:00 PM (view original):
See, that's the thing.  To your mind, quarterbacking started with the stat monsters of Marino and Favre.  Way back in the dark ages where QBs called their own plays, there was a defense called the bump-and-run where corners basically assaulted the wide receivers continually down the field.  As long as they stopped the mugging as soon as the ball was thrown, everything was peachy.  You had lower completion rates, higher interception rates, and a lot more deep throws. 

The goal was still the same.  WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.
Again, I felt I compared QBs to other QBs of the same era.  
3/2/2013 2:12 PM
So, do you think Ken Anderson was better than Stabler, Pastorini, Theismann, Archie Manning, Bartkowski, etc? 
3/2/2013 2:49 PM
Yes.

Pastorini? Really?

Was there something that Ken Anderson did that you didn't like? If your arguement is Super Bowls, you got guys on the list above who never made one.
3/2/2013 5:50 PM
Stabler and Theismann both won Super Bowls and had comparable winning records.
3/2/2013 5:59 PM

Here's a timely article (written by one of you guys?) about ranking QBs

http://voices.yahoo.com/ken-stabler-ken-anderson-vs-pro-football-hall-12022364.html

3/4/2013 10:11 AM
It's a long article, and I read about half of it so far.  The takeaway quote for me, so far, is:
 
"Great teams win championships. Great players are sometimes lucky to even play in a championship game. Great players are always unlucky to not make it."
3/4/2013 12:01 PM
It's actually not a bad article.  I don't agree with all the conclusions, but at least there's an internal consistency that one doesn't always find on these boards.
3/4/2013 12:43 PM
Posted by bistiza on 2/27/2013 9:39:00 AM (view original):
I'm going to give a short analysis of each group:

 

Marino, Fouts, E.Manning, Roethlisberger


Marino put up great stats and is no doubt one of the all time greats. He's too often underrated because of his lack of an SB win. All the old school "greats" are essentially the same as far as I'm concerned, so those are "wash" picks. Eli and Ben are clutch in key situations and are good but not amazing otherwise.

Bottom line: Marino is the only QB in this group that strikes me as elite.

Rodgers, Brees, Namath, Plunkett

Rodgers and Brees both have amazing passing ability and put up great stats. They're both elite in the modern age and will prove it further if they continue the way they've been playing. Namath and Plunkett are both old school.

Bottom line: Rodgers and Brees are good but the old school focus isn't impressive.

Elway, Staubach, Warner, McNabb


Elway is clearly one of the best. Staubach is old school. Warner is right up there in the top ten all time. McNabb is under rated but rounds out this group nicely.

Bottom line: Two top ten QBs and an often under rated McNabb make this a good group with just one old school pick.


Unitas, Favre, Moon, Tittle

Favre is a great QB and Moon was good in his time, and there are two old school picks here.

Bottom line: Only Favre is top ten material from this group, and without him, this group doesn't compete with the others here at all.

Young, Graham, Baugh, Anderson

Similar to the last group: One potential top ten QB all time, but now with three old school picks, its like Young has to carry this group for it to be better than any other.

Bottom line: As I said, Young carries the group, and the old schools are just a wash. Nothing overly impressive.

Brady, Tarkenton, Dawson, Greise

This group is like the last two except it has no top ten all time QB to carry it.

Bottom line: Three wash QBs and an over rated modern QB don't get it done here. Worst group so far.

P. Manning, Starr, Kelly, Jurgenson

Peyton is top ten all time and so is Kelly. Two true stars carry this group that features two old school picks.

Bottom line: With two high level QBs, this group is high quality. Only real competition is the very next group.

Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, Cunningham

The group has just one school pick and features a top ten all time QB and one who could easily make the top 20. Bradshaw was over rated and often still is, and Cunningham had some skill in his time.

Bottom line:  One great QB, one fairly great. The only real competition for this group is the one directly above it.

And the winner is...

P.Manning, Starr, Kelly, Jurgenson

The last two groups clearly are a cut above the rest. Bradshaw, Starr, and Jurgenson are all a wash and basically so is Cunningham, leaving P. Manning and Kelly against Montana and Aikman.

Peyton and Montana are both great QBs, but Peyton has shown more ability while Montana gets credit for SB wins, so the edge goes to Peyton.

Same story with Kelly and Aikman - both skilled, Aikman has the SB wins while Kelly lost four times. They basically wash each other out.

Honorable mention:



Marino, Fouts, E. Manning, Roethlisberger

Young,Baugh,Graham and Anderson not overly impressive? Think you better check again! Baugh for many years was felt to be the greatest QBever for many years. Graham played in the championship game in the league for 10 straght years. Finally Baugh and Graham was voted on the NFL's 75th anniverary team. I think that is very impressive.
3/4/2013 12:48 PM
Peyton's problem is not the 1 Superbowl win and 1 other appearance it is the 9-11 playoff record.  That is the same problem Marino has as he is 8-10 (Marino also adds the never winning a superbowl).  I mean Joe Flacco would have to make and lose his first playoff game 7 straight years to end up with the same playoff record as Peyton Manning.  You don't have to be 9-1 like Bart Starr, but you should at least be above .500 in the playoffs if you want to even be considered in the discussion for the best QB of all time (even Favre with all those playoff appearances is 13-11). 
3/4/2013 1:22 PM
Biz isnt impressed with that group because he said he has no grasp of how good the older QBs were.  Which makes you wonder why he's giving his opinion in the first place when he's ignoring half the QBs listed.
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