11/20/2012 5:01 PM
Florida State and Clemson end up leaving the ACC along with Maryland, is the addition of Notre Dame a net positive or negative for the ACC, because it seems apparent that the Big Ten doesn't add Maryland if the ACC didn't add Notre Dame.  Obviously the ACC is more than happy to swap Notre Dame and Connecticut (or Louisville) for Maryland, but what happens if FSU and Clemson also leave.  Is the addition of a part-time Notre Dame worth it.
11/20/2012 5:19 PM
So you think all these teams are leaving because Notre Dame is coming in?
11/20/2012 6:28 PM
Posted by stinenavy on 11/20/2012 5:19:00 PM (view original):
So you think all these teams are leaving because Notre Dame is coming in?
No I think the Big Ten went to Maryland because Notre Dame went to the ACC.  With Maryland leaving and the Big Ten keeping the door open to go to 16, I think teams like FSU and Clemson might see the writing on the wall and try to get into the SEC before it gets to 16.
11/20/2012 8:11 PM
Moranis, I know we disagree on this but I think the Big10 is really jumping the gun on going after Rutgers and Maryland.  I understand the TV market debate, but adding bigger brands would ultimately be a better move which is why the Big10 added Nebraska before anybody else.

I think Florida State is going to end up in the Big 12 when it is all said and done.  I can't speak for Clemson, but could see both Clemson and FSU joining the Big 12.
11/20/2012 8:12 PM
Florida blocks FSU, SC blocks Clemson.   There's a reason it's not happened and that's it.   SEC gains nothing but a couple of teams. 
11/20/2012 8:55 PM
Clemson's market is very small compared to SC as it is. FSU has about the same footprint as Florida, but yeah, I think Mike nailed it here.

If the SEC adds two more I think they will be teams outside of their existing footprint like Mizzou and A&M were.

Not sure who though. VA Tech has repeatedly said they won't leave the ACC, but who knows. I'd think they'd be high on the SEC target list. Cincy is probably out as Kentucky wouldn't like that idea one bit, and I think most ACC schools are off the table because in basketball they are one of the elite conferences.

Any other desirable schools are probably out of the SEC "area", but who knows if that is even an issue in this day and age. Some smaller schools would be decent fits geographically, while not infringing on existing SEC recruiting areas, but are probably not "big-time" enough to warrant the SEC's interest.

I am of the opinion that if they added a team like Tulsa, It would add recruiting power to the school right away, and in short order their footprint would grow in the state, as their product got better and better. But it may be too big a hill to climb for those types of schools.

11/20/2012 9:40 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/20/2012 8:12:00 PM (view original):
Florida blocks FSU, SC blocks Clemson.   There's a reason it's not happened and that's it.   SEC gains nothing but a couple of teams. 
Disagree about FSU because it almost happened instead of Missouri.  It was actually FSU that backed out, not the SEC.
11/20/2012 9:42 PM
Posted by gregsimon on 11/20/2012 8:55:00 PM (view original):
Clemson's market is very small compared to SC as it is. FSU has about the same footprint as Florida, but yeah, I think Mike nailed it here.

If the SEC adds two more I think they will be teams outside of their existing footprint like Mizzou and A&M were.

Not sure who though. VA Tech has repeatedly said they won't leave the ACC, but who knows. I'd think they'd be high on the SEC target list. Cincy is probably out as Kentucky wouldn't like that idea one bit, and I think most ACC schools are off the table because in basketball they are one of the elite conferences.

Any other desirable schools are probably out of the SEC "area", but who knows if that is even an issue in this day and age. Some smaller schools would be decent fits geographically, while not infringing on existing SEC recruiting areas, but are probably not "big-time" enough to warrant the SEC's interest.

I am of the opinion that if they added a team like Tulsa, It would add recruiting power to the school right away, and in short order their footprint would grow in the state, as their product got better and better. But it may be too big a hill to climb for those types of schools.

VATech and/or VA have never been courted by the SEC or they would of already been apart of the SEC.

SEC isn't interested in UofL, UC, or any of the other Metro schools.  SEC is only interested in adding Brand at this point.
11/20/2012 9:43 PM
Posted by cravedogg on 11/20/2012 8:11:00 PM (view original):
Moranis, I know we disagree on this but I think the Big10 is really jumping the gun on going after Rutgers and Maryland.  I understand the TV market debate, but adding bigger brands would ultimately be a better move which is why the Big10 added Nebraska before anybody else.

I think Florida State is going to end up in the Big 12 when it is all said and done.  I can't speak for Clemson, but could see both Clemson and FSU joining the Big 12.
Sure but what brands exist that at least make some sense geographically?  I mean it isn't like Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame were available.  So what brand is actually out there. 

I suppose one could argue Virginia Tech, but they aren't in the AAU and are much more like Northwestern than the majority of the teams in the Big Ten.  They are at least a pretty solid football brand and would add to the D.C. market draw a lot.  Virginia, Kansas, and North Carolina are in the AAU and fit a lot better with the type of schools in the Big Ten, but all of their football teams are just as bad as Maryland and in the case of Kansas don't add much in the way of a tv market. 

That said I've said for awhile I think the Big Ten's order of preference has always been N.D., Texas, UNC, and Maryland with Rutgers being the default add should one of the other four come in (and just one).  If the Big Ten could add North Carolina they would in an instant despite the brand not being worth all that much.  Once you get UNC in, I think a team like Georgia Tech would make some sense (huge market, like UNC a AAU school, great recruiting area, etc.).

I think you would then see the Big Ten break out into 4 team pods (I'd do something like this, but who the hell knows what they would do if they went to the 4 pod model) - 1. Penn State, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois & 2. Ohio State, Wisconsin, Maryland, Purdue,  & 3. Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Georgia Tech & 4. Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, North Carolina.  They could then rotate the divisions so two years 1 and 2 are a side of the bracket (the winner would play the winner of 3 and 4 in the Big Ten title game), then 1/3 vs 2/4, and then 1/4 v. 2/3.  You go to a 9 game conference schedule and every team has a rival from 1 of the other divisions which you play every year, so that is your 9 games (your own pod = 3 games, the pod you are paired with = 4 games, your rival from the other 2 pods = 2 games).  You then match up yearly rivals, so for example the pod 1 teams might have something like this for rivals PSU (OSU, MSU, Iowa), Rutgers (Mary, Ga Tech, UNC), Indiana (Purdue, Mich, Minn), Illinois (Wiscy, NW, Neb) which it would play every single year and every team would play every team in the conference at least 2 times in every 6 year period.
11/21/2012 8:21 AM
As I said in the other thread, fans tend to think in terms of geography/competition.    It doesn't work that way.   One thing I don't even consider is academic standards.   I suppose one could argue that football/basketball players mostly lower those standards anyway but that's not the point.  University Presidents aren't all about athletic programs.  Some of them do think of academic standing.   I do recall Lou Holtz getting those standards lowered while he was at ND. 

All that said, I don't know the standards for Clemson, VA, VaTech, FSU, etc, but I'm pretty sure Duke has high academic standards and they're in the ACC.   Perhaps those schools don't "fit" in other conferences from the academic standpoint.   Although, quite honestly, I can't imagine that group of 4 being on a Duke-level.
11/21/2012 9:50 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/21/2012 8:21:00 AM (view original):
As I said in the other thread, fans tend to think in terms of geography/competition.    It doesn't work that way.   One thing I don't even consider is academic standards.   I suppose one could argue that football/basketball players mostly lower those standards anyway but that's not the point.  University Presidents aren't all about athletic programs.  Some of them do think of academic standing.   I do recall Lou Holtz getting those standards lowered while he was at ND. 

All that said, I don't know the standards for Clemson, VA, VaTech, FSU, etc, but I'm pretty sure Duke has high academic standards and they're in the ACC.   Perhaps those schools don't "fit" in other conferences from the academic standpoint.   Although, quite honestly, I can't imagine that group of 4 being on a Duke-level.
Oh I agree, but the Big Ten does look at academics.  That is why every single school is in the AAU (except Nebraska, which was until very recently as a result of having its medical school's research not count).  Everyone knows the Big Ten makes the most money of any athletic conference, but they make so much more money in research, grants, etc. than the other conferences as well.  They aren't just going to add any school.  It will need to be in the AAU or at the very least have a very strong academic history (like Notre Dame which isn't in the AAU).  That is why a school like West Virginia was never even considered by the Big Ten.  And just because a school is in the AAU doesn't mean it will be considered (like Missouri, which didn't add enough markets to the conference with Illinois drawing well in St. Louis and Nebraska drawing well in Kansas City). 

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