Could Saban right now... Topic

gregsimon
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I'd love to see computer rankings for historical teams, but Sagarin only goes back to 1998, and I can't find any that go back further.
1/10/2013 9:05 PM
MikeT23
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Duke's all-time record is also sub .500.

I'm sorry, Saban has taken historically good programs and won.   Spurrier took two downtrodden programs and won.  

History says, if you put both of them in Conn, Spurrier would turn them into a 10 win team.    Saban has no track record of turning a perennial loser into a winner.

I'm sure other coaches have done the same but Spurrier jumps out at me.
1/10/2013 9:16 PM
cravedogg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/10/2013 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Duke's all-time record is also sub .500.

I'm sorry, Saban has taken historically good programs and won.   Spurrier took two downtrodden programs and won.  

History says, if you put both of them in Conn, Spurrier would turn them into a 10 win team.    Saban has no track record of turning a perennial loser into a winner.

I'm sure other coaches have done the same but Spurrier jumps out at me.
Your points are valid but lets also compare the winning programs.  Saban built monsters at LSU and Alabama, Spurrier only built winning programs at Florida.  You have to consider all sides of the equation as opposed to just picking what looks good for your guy.

And by the way, if you can get a big time job why in the heck would you settle for a middle of the road or less position. 

No matter what you say Saban built himself into a perenial big time coach, it just doesn't happen over night  He started at Toledo and built himself into what he is today.  He got hired at LSU because he built his resume, it was not given to him
1/11/2013 12:43 AM
moranis
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Posted by gregsimon on 1/10/2013 8:15:00 PM (view original):
If the only criteria for "dynasty" is national championships, then no Spurrier didn't create a dynasty.

But during his 12 seasons at Florida he DID:

Avg 10 wins per season, including a stretch of six consecutive 10 win seasons (which had only been done one other time in CFB history).
Not ever win less than 9.
Win the SEC 6 times including 4 in a row.
Not ever finish lower than 13th, including 8 Top Ten finishes in a row.
Appear in every AP Top 25 poll released during his tenure.

That's pretty impressive. There is a strong possibility that Saban could match some of those marks, but as of today he has not done so.
Sounds pretty much like Sweater Vest.
1/11/2013 6:30 AM
moranis
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/10/2013 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Duke's all-time record is also sub .500.

I'm sorry, Saban has taken historically good programs and won.   Spurrier took two downtrodden programs and won.  

History says, if you put both of them in Conn, Spurrier would turn them into a 10 win team.    Saban has no track record of turning a perennial loser into a winner.

I'm sure other coaches have done the same but Spurrier jumps out at me.
I think you are overselling how good LSU was before Saban and underselling a bit how bad SC was before Spurrier (though they were on probation when he took over).  And Saban and Spurrier had pretty similar rises at MSU and SC respectively, Saban just left before he could reach the same consistent level (heck they were both programs even on probation when they first got there).
1/11/2013 6:42 AM
MikeT23
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I'm not saying Spurrier is the better coach.    I think Saban is a grinder who'll replay the same 3 second piece of film a hundred times while Spurrier is likely to say "I think we got it.  Let's go shoot a round of golf!" after an hour of practice.   In fact, I believe part of Spurrier's contract was a membership to Augusta.   I'm just saying Spurrier took a couple of football-poor programs and turned them around.   I don't see that on Saban's resume'.
1/11/2013 8:44 AM
cravedogg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/11/2013 8:44:00 AM (view original):
I'm not saying Spurrier is the better coach.    I think Saban is a grinder who'll replay the same 3 second piece of film a hundred times while Spurrier is likely to say "I think we got it.  Let's go shoot a round of golf!" after an hour of practice.   In fact, I believe part of Spurrier's contract was a membership to Augusta.   I'm just saying Spurrier took a couple of football-poor programs and turned them around.   I don't see that on Saban's resume'.
And the significance of this is zero...

Coaches are judged on national titles, end of story.
1/12/2013 11:09 AM
MikeT23
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Uh, yeah, in your world maybe.

120 teams, 1 national title.    119 coaches aren't necessarily inferior to the 1.  

That's utterly stupid.   End of story.
1/12/2013 11:41 AM
stinenavy
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Could have sworn the job of the coach is to win championships.

What coaches were better than Saban this season?
1/12/2013 1:09 PM
cravedogg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/12/2013 11:41:00 AM (view original):
Uh, yeah, in your world maybe.

120 teams, 1 national title.    119 coaches aren't necessarily inferior to the 1.  

That's utterly stupid.   End of story.
No need to be a jack a$$.  You know darn well the greatest of coaches are measured by national championships.  There is a reason everyone is calling Alabama's current run a dynasty, they have won 4 out of the last 4 national titles.  There is a reason Nick Saban is being labled as the greatest college coach in the game today, he is the only one with 4 national titles.  And yes, right now every other college coach is inferior to Nick Saban.  That doesn't mean the other 119 coaches can make their way to the top of the mountain to join Nick Saban, but Urban Meyer would need 2 more national titles and Bob Stoops would need 3 more.

The best of the best are measured by championships.  There is a reason Phil Jackson, Red Aubuach, Bill Beliicheck, Chuck Knoll, Bill Walsh, Vince Lomabrdi, Leahy, Osbourne, Wooden, and Coach K are considered the greatest in their respective sports, they have the most championships.?
1/12/2013 4:07 PM
MikeT23
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That wasn't the question.

Of course, your first sentence does play into the question.   Do you think Wake Forest told their head coach "We expect you to win a Natty" when they hired him?

Really?

1/12/2013 4:08 PM
MikeT23
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Was this being a jackass?  "And the significance of this is zero..."

I don't think the best of the best are measured by National Titles.  But, again, that wasn't the question.

The question was(paraphrased) "Could Nick Saban take Wake Forest to the championship?"    My answer is "There is no history of Saban turning around a downtrodden program.  Spurrier has done such a thing."

1/12/2013 4:11 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by moranis on 1/9/2013 3:20:00 PM (view original):
take over a program like Purdue, Minnesota, Colorado, Kansas, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Wake Forest, etc. and turn them into a national power capable of winning a national title?
This was the question.

Show me an example of Saban taking a team like this to a Natty.  Show me an example of Saban taking a perennial loser and making them a winner.
1/12/2013 4:13 PM
jasonkent25
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LSU only had 3 10 win seasons in 40 years before Saban got there.. and only had 7 wins combined the 2 seasons before he got there...  And we won them their first national championship....
1/18/2013 5:15 PM
MikeT23
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LSU is LSU.  They have something like the 10th most victories in NCAA history.  Winning at LSU isn't something that has never been done.

1/18/2013 5:35 PM
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