All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > How many OL uses defines a cookie?
8/6/2013 11:50 PM
I wanted some opinions on the this matter.  How would you define a cookie in terms of number of uses in performance history or other metric?  Are cookies always defined in terms of a player-year, or are some players cookies across their careers.  Again, how would you define this?

I'm asking, because I am thinking of taking up Teaparty's challenge, win an OL with a $70M team and no cookies.
8/7/2013 1:57 AM
I would only consider player-seasons as cookies.  I'd set the bar around 300-400 for position players, maybe 100 uses higher for pitchers.
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8/7/2013 1:31 PM
To take this in a philosophical direction, what is a cookie?  I think we can all agree Miguel Dilone is a cookie, but (looking at the snapshot usage table boogerlips so kindly liked above) what about some of the other frequently used players?  1986 Raines ($6.1 mil), 1923 Williams ($6.2 mil), and 1985 McGee ($7.1 mil) are all high up on the list, but given their prices for a relatively inexpensive position, are they really cookies?  Or are they just good performers?  I'm sure somebody more mathematically inclined than I has done a value analysis; at their prices, I would be surprised to see that they provide values significantly over their costs.  Also, are scrub players considered cookies?  Of the top twenty most frequently used batters, 12 are under $250K.

So, how do you define cookie?  Or, to paraphrase Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964), we can't define a cookie, but we know one when we see it.
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8/7/2013 2:11 PM
8/7/2013 2:20 PM
I think a cookie is defined entirely by frequency of use...so yes, all of those players qualify, as does (obviously) 1908 Joss and (perhaps less obviously) the 200K Hughie Jennings with the most PA/162 of any 200K player.  In other words, I'm defining a cookie as "a player whose perceived (not necessarily actual) value so greatly exceeds his cost that he is used disproportionately by owners in OLs or OL-type leagues."

Exactly where the threshold is in terms of number of uses, I'm less certain, but I would say everyone on the "list of most frequently used players" qualifies.
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8/9/2013 11:36 AM
Posted by napolean on 8/8/2013 9:00:00 AM (view original):
The problem with playing a bazillion OL teams with the same players doesn't lie with the owners. People plunk down their dough to win money, Reward points and shots at TOC's, and if using Joss, Roberts, Dilone, etc. helps you get there you use them.  If WIS instituted a revised salary structure at least occasionally, we would have much more diverse players in the OL's. So if an owner does not want to use the same players consistently in OL's he goes on to Theme's or Progressives, because it is pretty certain that if he builds an OL without cookies he doesn't stand much of a chance to win against them. Personally I would like to see WIS update the salary structure every six months or so simply based on a players usage, it may rekindle the spark to get involved in OL's again.
agree that salary should be updated based upon useage numbers
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8/11/2013 6:54 PM
I'm actually a little surprised at how infrequently the 'most frequently used players' are used.  You're constantly hearing people comment that they're in an OL and half the league has '08 Joss; looking at the list, '08 Joss appears on less than 12% of the teams.  That's less than three teams a league.  Perhaps the whole cookie issue is blown out of proportion?
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