Just sent this to CS Topic

hughesjr
Posts: 3174 (0)
Hall of Famer
484 154 8 2
Prospect
Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 8/12/2011 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by kmasonbx on 8/12/2011 11:18:00 AM (view original):
As long as you're not cheating I don't really care. You can have 6 teams for all I care, as long as all the players you sign for each team are from states you scouted then whatever.
km - I think there are about a half dozen advantages to having multiple teams:

lets say you have west virginia and ohio, which should overlap some in terms of territory.  your wv team is much better.  While scouting for WV honestly, you come across a PF, who is not quite good enough for WV, but would be great for Ohio.  At this point, you have not scouted the state with Ohio.  How do you proceed?

Also, would you ever schedule big east teams with ohio in non conf, if so, you get a nice preview on how to gameplan for a WV conf opponent?

The biggest advantage I see, is simply getting a feel for how recruiting is going, and how good recruits are by getting to look at two sets of data at once, I found this to be a huge advantage when doing two teams at once.  The first time I noticed this was when I helped a guy out who was in the hospital by running his d3 team while I was still in d3 too, getting that second group of data made recruiting much easier.

if you answered the first ? you would only pick a player in WV if you scouted it ahead of time, if you scout the same state with two teams, how do you pick which team gets the better choice? 

Also, same scenerio, how do you justify ohio and WV are colluding, in an implied agreement to 'draft'.

Finally, how would you handle competitive recruiting, do you think it is fair for ohio to compete with any big east schools, or WV to compete with any mac schools?  I don't?

This is not meant to single you out, simply trying to sort out the issues!
OR, when you have two teams in the same world, they are not supposed to be geographically close to one another. (Right now I just have a single team in Allen and Rupp, but at some points I had two in Allen. And one of the reasons I chose Montana was to be really far away from my other team.) Regardless, I think this nullifies your WVU/Ohio example.

I think the playing a team in non-con to scout them example is somewhere between almost meaningless and totally meaningless. In real life, that's an advantage. Here, there's really no difference in taking a look at your conference opponent did in previous games against other opponents vs. if one of those games was against your alias. Just don't see that having an impact.

The bottom line for me is that WIS allows it, and I do think that as long as the teams are geographically separated that the actual advantages are virtually nil.
It is not nil at all ... if I can see all the FSS data for all the states around California because I have a D3 team out there and I can see all the FSS data on the Atlantic seaboard because I have Maryland in the same world, then I can go get a high potential Div-1A point guard in CA with my Maryland team.  Sure, if UCLA or USC want him, they can get him ... but I still know that guy is going to be good because I know his potential and I did not have to pay for that state.

Same holds true for the FSS data for Div 3 .. I can see that there is a good Div-3 guy in New York and no one is on him.  I would know his potential because I can see it.

You could basically, if you had two teams, get FSS for 1/2 price.

Now, one can say, hey, I never do that.  OK, great.  But I don't like having to take someone's word on it.

Much better to not have 2 teams in the same world.  Then you would not be tempted to look at the other data when your target falls through and you need to find a undecided guy who is good on the quick.
8/12/2011 1:55 PM
oldresorter
Posts: 645 (0)
Hall of Famer
1077 1
Prospect
Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:16:00 PM (view original):
kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.
so why was my earlier example so irrelevant - my message was addressed to KM - who I have had a bit of an ongoing FRIENDLY discussion with all the way back to our coaches corner about having multiple ID's in relative proximity - I carefully chose WV and Ohio because of their relevance to KM and myself - I would pick others to try to explore this issue with you?  I told KM on our coaches corner a week or two ago, that he should check with CS to approve having two d1 teams that might be considered too close.  I also told him that CS approval would cover his butt if someone attacks his integrity.  Let's face it, gil is getting attacked pretty hard here, and IMO he is as honest a coach as this game has, so having multiple ID's does set you up for scrutiny, deserved or not. 

Earlier  in this thread, I stated if cs is ok with any case of muyltiple id's so Iam I, but if I were in charge, it would be one coach, one world, one team.  The posting here since then only strengthens my conviction on that.  Of course, girt I am sure you would join the many out there who are glad I am not in charge - LOL
8/12/2011 2:00 PM
kmasonbx
Posts: 847 (0)
Hall of Famer
210
Prospect
Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:16:00 PM (view original):
kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.
OR just used that as an example and I went along with it, my 2 teams are actually WVU and North Texas. I just got North Texas this season.

And Dac that is definitely a good point, never really looked at it like that. But that still hurts the "you're giving yourself an advantage" argument because it's clear in that instance you're hurting yourself and actually HELPING other teams.
8/12/2011 2:20 PM
kmasonbx
Posts: 847 (0)
Hall of Famer
210
Prospect
Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.
Your whole thought process in this post is wrong. Like I said before I only have teams in 2 a day worlds, I've played in 1 a day worlds before and I don't like them, there are only 3 2 a day worlds how can somebody who dislikes 1 a day worlds possibly have more than 3 teams?  Also Tark is head and shoulders above the other 2 a day worlds, so from a competitive standpoint if you want the maximum challenge Tark would naturally be the world you'd get a 2nd ID in, and it doesn't mean you have malicious intent.
8/12/2011 2:26 PM
pdpat1
Posts: 15 (0)
Hall of Famer
100
Prospect
The truth of the matter is, the only way to prevent cheating is to outlaw two teams in one world.  WIS will never do this because they would be turning down additional revenue.  Therefore, it falls under man code to only have one team in a world.  To me, this is the same as not allowing a one urinal spacer in the bathroom.  You just don't do it.
8/12/2011 2:31 PM
ll316
Posts: 202 (0)
Hall of Famer
11 1 184 5 1
Prospect
Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.

There is no reason not to have 2 teams in the same world in different divisions.   Same division?  I can see that.  Geographically close?  Sure.  But if my teams are never going to play each other or recruit the same people, I see no reason why I shouldn't.

Also, you're not the boss of me.

8/12/2011 2:32 PM
gillispie
Posts: 1766 (0)
Hall of Famer
116
Rookie
Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:16:00 PM (view original):
kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.
i agree, thats just too close. at least for d1.
8/12/2011 2:49 PM
gillispie
Posts: 1766 (0)
Hall of Famer
116
Rookie
Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

this is just an incredibly short sighted statement. really? how many coaches have picked up a second ID to take over a team they love, so they can still achieve their goal of moving up and building a dynasty at a higher level? clearly, there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to have 10 recruiting sessions per year, and would like to condense that to say, 5. there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to play 1 or 2 a day worlds. just totally ridiculous to feel that way right? come on.
8/12/2011 2:51 PM
dacj501
Posts: 4779 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 305
Pro
Posted by kmasonbx on 8/12/2011 2:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:16:00 PM (view original):
kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.
OR just used that as an example and I went along with it, my 2 teams are actually WVU and North Texas. I just got North Texas this season.

And Dac that is definitely a good point, never really looked at it like that. But that still hurts the "you're giving yourself an advantage" argument because it's clear in that instance you're hurting yourself and actually HELPING other teams.
km, I agree with your last to a degree - but I've never really cared much about the giving yourself an advantage angle - I honestly don't think most coaches do that. My main objection is that while you might actually be hurting your own recruiting efforts and helping some others, you might also be hurting me, if say in that example I was in a battle with a MAC school...any time a coach knows there are nearby teams that could interfere with his recruiting but won't it creates an unfair advantage for that school over other schools...
8/12/2011 2:54 PM
gillispie
Posts: 1766 (0)
Hall of Famer
116
Rookie
Posted by pdpat1 on 8/12/2011 2:31:00 PM (view original):
The truth of the matter is, the only way to prevent cheating is to outlaw two teams in one world.  WIS will never do this because they would be turning down additional revenue.  Therefore, it falls under man code to only have one team in a world.  To me, this is the same as not allowing a one urinal spacer in the bathroom.  You just don't do it.
The truth of the matter is, there is NO WAY to prevent cheating. If you want to cheat, you will. Its just that simple. You can collude with other coaches. Or, you could always create an alternate ID that was in no way linked to the original. Nobody would catch that, ever, if you were reasonably smart about it.

The truth of the matter is, if you are operating under the assumption that people will cheat given the opportunity, and that you must prevent this at all costs, the answer is simple - only one coach should be allowed per world. Otherwise, cheating is guaranteed to be possible. So, you can crack down on one potential way of cheating - having two IDs publicly, which is by far the hardest way of cheating to conceal. Or, you can just accept the reality that you will never stop those who are trying to cheat, and stop persecuting those who are just trying to play the game.
8/12/2011 2:57 PM
gillispie
Posts: 1766 (0)
Hall of Famer
116
Rookie
Posted by oldresorter on 8/12/2011 2:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 8/12/2011 1:16:00 PM (view original):
kmason -- I respect you as a coach and am certainly not accusing you of wrongdoing, but I absolutely do not think you should be allowed to have neighboring teams in Ohio and West Virginia.
so why was my earlier example so irrelevant - my message was addressed to KM - who I have had a bit of an ongoing FRIENDLY discussion with all the way back to our coaches corner about having multiple ID's in relative proximity - I carefully chose WV and Ohio because of their relevance to KM and myself - I would pick others to try to explore this issue with you?  I told KM on our coaches corner a week or two ago, that he should check with CS to approve having two d1 teams that might be considered too close.  I also told him that CS approval would cover his butt if someone attacks his integrity.  Let's face it, gil is getting attacked pretty hard here, and IMO he is as honest a coach as this game has, so having multiple ID's does set you up for scrutiny, deserved or not. 

Earlier  in this thread, I stated if cs is ok with any case of muyltiple id's so Iam I, but if I were in charge, it would be one coach, one world, one team.  The posting here since then only strengthens my conviction on that.  Of course, girt I am sure you would join the many out there who are glad I am not in charge - LOL
thanks OR.

i can definitely appreciate the fact that you would set it to one team/world if in charge. ill be honest. if i were in charge, i would set it to one team per division per world, and line up recruiting seasons for some worlds. i personally can't see any potential advantage or impact on anybody else, by a coach who attempts to play fair, by having multiple teams in a world, provided they are in different divisions - so i would allow that. but i do see the potential for issues in the same division. the one and only reason i play this game with 2 teams in 1 division is because i just can't take the disruption a recruiting season causes me multiple times a month. i do have a team in rupp that is a backseat team, not nearly as disruptive to recruit for - but i want to have 2 real d1 teams, and the alternative for me to having 2 in one world is to just have 1 - not to have 2 in 2 different worlds.

i also appreciate that OR can be against something but take a moderate approach and have a reasonable discussion without having a witch hunt. at one point, i had absolutely nothing against multiple teams in a division - OR brought up a number of things that are all small effects IMO, but big enough that i actually did drop down to one team/division as a result of our discussions. he convinced me, for a time, that while i had an A+ and C- team, there was no problem, but if that other team got competitive, there was - so once they got competitive, made a few NTs then the elite 8 - i dropped them. after further consideration, given the state of the game, i feel the positive of adding another coach who cares about their team easily outweighs the negatives - but if i were in charge, i presume worlds would stay competitive, and i would impose a 1team/division restriction.

however, it is also worth noting that 1 guy who is able to separate emotions from the issue, and get down to the issue itself, can make a big difference - while 100 angry people who are railing out of control, without ever getting to anything concrete, can make 0 difference. might be worth thinking over for some of those out there.
8/12/2011 3:16 PM (edited)
swiners
Posts: 38 (0)
Hall of Famer
178
Prospect
Hilarious gill that you can read emotions from a post. I stated nearly all the same arguments that OR did but because of who he is and who I am-then i am angry and a witch hunter-just funny that's all.
8/12/2011 3:36 PM
emy1013
Posts: 2731 (0)
Hall of Famer
828
Prospect
Posted by kmasonbx on 8/12/2011 2:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.
Your whole thought process in this post is wrong. Like I said before I only have teams in 2 a day worlds, I've played in 1 a day worlds before and I don't like them, there are only 3 2 a day worlds how can somebody who dislikes 1 a day worlds possibly have more than 3 teams?  Also Tark is head and shoulders above the other 2 a day worlds, so from a competitive standpoint if you want the maximum challenge Tark would naturally be the world you'd get a 2nd ID in, and it doesn't mean you have malicious intent.
Gotta agree with Mason here.  Interested to read Hughes' response, if there is one.
8/12/2011 3:41 PM
gillispie
Posts: 1766 (0)
Hall of Famer
116
Rookie
Posted by swiners on 8/12/2011 3:36:00 PM (view original):
Hilarious gill that you can read emotions from a post. I stated nearly all the same arguments that OR did but because of who he is and who I am-then i am angry and a witch hunter-just funny that's all.
that is so far from reality. read your last 20 posts. read his last 4. TOTALLY different. you raised exactly one somewhat legitimate point - the potential to play the same team twice with my two different teams. i don't even think OR brought that up. all the stuff he brought up, except that point if he brought it up, you have not said. and like i said in my first post - after your repeated demanding that i respond to him - OR and i have talked about this a bunch of times and he has made points that are not in this thread at all - and really our opinions are not far off. where as yours and mine are dramatically different. the simple fact that you made about 20 posts with exactly 1 of them containing ANY contribution whatsoever makes it pretty god damn obvious what you and OR are saying is totally different.
8/12/2011 3:42 PM
milkamania
Posts: 295 (0)
Hall of Famer
2 199 1
Rookie
Gill, if I may ask a yes or no question without making any judgements as I am fine with 2 teams in the same world as long as CS says it is within the rules.   If I am not mistaken, your 2 teams in Tark are Texas A&M and Kentucky.   The question is, do you ever FSS scout the same state with both schools?  Given that Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, etc can easily be recruited by both, I am curious.  Again, I don't mean to sound accusatory, as I said, I have no problem with it, but I am curious.  Same question would apply to anyone else with multiple teams in the same world?
8/12/2011 3:48 PM
◂ Prev 1...8|9|10|11|12...19 Next ▸
Just sent this to CS Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.