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fmschwab
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Posted by hughesjr on 8/13/2011 12:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie on 8/12/2011 2:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

this is just an incredibly short sighted statement. really? how many coaches have picked up a second ID to take over a team they love, so they can still achieve their goal of moving up and building a dynasty at a higher level? clearly, there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to have 10 recruiting sessions per year, and would like to condense that to say, 5. there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to play 1 or 2 a day worlds. just totally ridiculous to feel that way right? come on.
A team that you LOVE ... really?

This is a computer generated sheet of numbers.  You can LOVE the next excel spreadsheet it generates just as much as the last one.

I am not saying that everyone cheats, just that after 4 seasons there is no one left that was there when you took over, so getting the same team in another world is just fine.
hughesjr, I am trying to recall if you've ever posted something that I agreed with.

But the statement that you made here ("The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT") ranks as among your most misguided, and that's saying something.

Could you maybe take a step back for a moment and just admit how off base that was? I think the ability to do that might help salvage a little bit of your credibility.
8/13/2011 1:46 PM (edited)
cornfused
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After I built my D3 alma mater from a Sim wasteland to a national champion in ten seasons, leaving was legitimately hard to do - you do get attached to those guys.  At least, I do.
8/13/2011 2:02 PM
coach_billyg
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Posted by hughesjr on 8/13/2011 12:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie on 8/12/2011 2:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hughesjr on 8/12/2011 1:44:00 PM (view original):
There is absolutely NO REASON to have 2 teams in the same world ... unless you have teams in all the other worlds.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

It should not be allowed, cut and dry.

Sure, one can argue that they are not cheating and would not cheat, etc.  And you can choose not to cheat.  BUT ... there are enough worlds that it is not necessary to have 2 teams in the same world.

One can build relationships and build up teams in any world ... so, just do it.

The ONLY reason to have 2 teams in the same world is to CHEAT.

this is just an incredibly short sighted statement. really? how many coaches have picked up a second ID to take over a team they love, so they can still achieve their goal of moving up and building a dynasty at a higher level? clearly, there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to have 10 recruiting sessions per year, and would like to condense that to say, 5. there is ABSOLUTELY no merit there, right? what about a coach who doesn't want to play 1 or 2 a day worlds. just totally ridiculous to feel that way right? come on.
A team that you LOVE ... really?

This is a computer generated sheet of numbers.  You can LOVE the next excel spreadsheet it generates just as much as the last one.

I am not saying that everyone cheats, just that after 4 seasons there is no one left that was there when you took over, so getting the same team in another world is just fine.
then please explain to me, under your claim that there is absolutely no reason to have teams except to cheat with FSS - absolutely none at all - then why did so many coaches have multiple teams BEFORE FSS EVEN EXISTED????
8/13/2011 2:53 PM
colonels19
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Posted by emy1013 on 8/13/2011 12:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 12:09:00 AM (view original):
I just can't stand people that lie about cheating...you don't view other states that you FSSed on your other usernames...poppycock...I don't care that billyg or anyone does it, but don't try to act like some holier than thou, champion of ethics in HD, because it just makes you even more ridiculous.  If you have mulitple teams in a world and you're not "sharing" FSS info between the usernames, you're just dumb, period.
Guess we know where Trevor stands on this issue.
I just don't see how it's cheating because anyone/everyone has the opportunity to buy 2 teams in the same world...I have 4 usernames and don't care to do it at the moment, but I've "cheated" and I'll do it again if I ever have 2 teams in the same world where I can buy FSS...my big thing is, you look really dumb trying to say I don't use FSS for my other teams...yeah, my ***...I just don't understand why you'd go out of your way to defend yourself on/about something that really isn't a big deal.  Own who you are and what you do.
8/13/2011 4:38 PM
kmasonbx1
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Colonels, when you have 2 D1 teams that are far apart it's nearly irrelevant to look at the other team's FSS to recruit. There aren't many schools that can recruit more than 360 miles away. So if you have two schools that are 1000+ miles away the territory will basically never overlap. For example with my North Texas team if I see a great recruit in Arkansas team that would be great for my WVU team, it wouldn't matter because there is no chance I could ever go into Arkansas with WVU and get a Big East quality recruit.
8/13/2011 5:23 PM
ike1024
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Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 4:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 8/13/2011 12:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 12:09:00 AM (view original):
I just can't stand people that lie about cheating...you don't view other states that you FSSed on your other usernames...poppycock...I don't care that billyg or anyone does it, but don't try to act like some holier than thou, champion of ethics in HD, because it just makes you even more ridiculous.  If you have mulitple teams in a world and you're not "sharing" FSS info between the usernames, you're just dumb, period.
Guess we know where Trevor stands on this issue.
I just don't see how it's cheating because anyone/everyone has the opportunity to buy 2 teams in the same world...I have 4 usernames and don't care to do it at the moment, but I've "cheated" and I'll do it again if I ever have 2 teams in the same world where I can buy FSS...my big thing is, you look really dumb trying to say I don't use FSS for my other teams...yeah, my ***...I just don't understand why you'd go out of your way to defend yourself on/about something that really isn't a big deal.  Own who you are and what you do.
Because some people don't like cheating (I'm not sure why you put it in quotes implying it's not actually cheating).  I don't FSS with my D2 for my D3 one and vice versa.  Why?  Because I don't want to.  I don't have two teams so I can cheat; I do it so I can play with two teams I enjoy playing with in two conference in enjoy playing in.  I think it says more about you that you are positive everyone does it.
8/13/2011 7:36 PM
colonels19
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How is it cheating when it's openly allowable and anyone can do it as long as they're willing to buy 2+ teams in the same world?  What should the penalty be?  How can/do you police it?

If you have 2 teams in the same world and you aren't using that as an advantage in some way in recruiting, you're an idiot, period.
8/13/2011 10:31 PM
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nbstowman
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Not to name names, there is a very successful coach in 2 of the 4 worlds I coach in. He has been a conf mate, and I respect him a lot. However, he only coaches in 2 worlds and has at least 2 teams in each. I don't believe he needs to cheat to win, and by no means am accusing him of doing so, but it does bring to mind the question, if a coach is that good, why wouldn't he coach in more than 2 worlds, as opposed to having multiple teams in only 2, and how can an intelligent player not use having 2 teams, especially 2 big6 teams, to his advantage. For ex. One team in Conn has 6 open scholies and an A+, how on earth would the coach not use the extra cash to help his Fresno St. team with a B- prestige team by scouting the west coast for him? Anyone who has coached D1 knows how close battles for top recruits (and these days, the top recruits are very few) can be, and how a couple of k could turn a battle to your favor. IMHO, anyone who has more than one team in a world is getting an unfair advantage over the rest of us.
8/14/2011 5:18 AM
nachopuzzle
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Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 10:31:00 PM (view original):
How is it cheating when it's openly allowable and anyone can do it as long as they're willing to buy 2+ teams in the same world?  What should the penalty be?  How can/do you police it?

If you have 2 teams in the same world and you aren't using that as an advantage in some way in recruiting, you're an idiot, period.
It's only allowable under certain conditions. I've personally witnessed the WIS admin make a coach with multiple usernames in the same world switch one account to a program on the other side of the country. As for how to police these situations, it's obvious the only realistic approach is to set guidelines and/or outline the conditions whereby this scenario is tenable. I get the point you're trying to make about people acting 'holier than thou' and holding themselves above reproach, but you don't do yourself any favors by advocating for something unethical precisely because of the advantage it provides due to it's ambiguous nature - it just makes you look like a shady mofo.   
8/14/2011 7:35 AM
_hannibal_
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Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 10:31:00 PM (view original):
How is it cheating when it's openly allowable and anyone can do it as long as they're willing to buy 2+ teams in the same world?  What should the penalty be?  How can/do you police it?

If you have 2 teams in the same world and you aren't using that as an advantage in some way in recruiting, you're an idiot, period.
A couple of points.  It is not openly allowable.  It is explicitly forbidden to use FSS information from one team for another.  Second, the legality and morality of something is not based on how easy it is (or is not) to police it.

If you have 2 teams in the same world and you are using that as an advantage in recruiting you are violating the fair play rules of the game.  Furthermore, you are not playing Hoops Dynasty but some other game.
 

8/14/2011 8:37 AM
colonels19
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Posted by dahsdebater on 8/14/2011 3:49:00 AM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 8/13/2011 10:31:00 PM (view original):
How is it cheating when it's openly allowable and anyone can do it as long as they're willing to buy 2+ teams in the same world?  What should the penalty be?  How can/do you police it?

If you have 2 teams in the same world and you aren't using that as an advantage in some way in recruiting, you're an idiot, period.
If you have 2 teams in the same world and you ARE using it as an advantage in recruiting you're an idiot.  If you're not going to play on the level then the game really SHOULDN'T be fun...  If I were cheating I don't think I'd have nearly as much fun, 'cause the whole competition on uneven footing doesn't provide the same competitive rush.  And if it's not fun then it's a waste of time, and what kind of idiot throws time and money at something that they don't enjoy?
You're acting like it's some big sin...when I've done this in the past, I've just used it to tab the potentials (high/lows) of guys I'm interested in, so again, what's the big deal, where's the big advantage?  I still have to out-recruit coaches X, Y, and Z to get said player(s) in question, so I don't see how this offsets the competitive balance...so you have a couple hundred more dollars to 'cruit with...that's not going to make or break anything.

I thoroughly enjoy this game, it's the only one really worth playing/paying for on this site, and if there were 137 users with 2 teams each at D2 in one world and I was the only guy with 1 team (and for the sake of argument the 276th team is Sim AI), I would still play without issue.

Like I said, grand scheme, this is just not a big deal.  "Sharing" FSS between teams let's you see the greens and reds...beyond that, what does it do?...You still have to recruit, you still have to set your charts, you still have to gameplan...you're grandstanding on a feature that basically shows you if a recruit is worthwhile or not...oh and if you still don't like it...my solution....make FSS free to everyone, "problem" solved.
8/14/2011 10:13 AM
nachopuzzle
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The oversimplification of the previous post is just patronizing. Do you want to know what the main factor is out-recruiting coaches X, Y, and Z: It's the MONEY, Lebowski!!! And I don't buy that it's typically just a few hundred dollars, besides my coaches resume might be a lot different if I'd had a couple extra hundred dollars in a few situations. Determining player potentials might be the most important and strategic aspects of the recruiting process in DII and DIII, but something tells me that you probably know this already.

8/14/2011 11:37 AM
colonels19
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A couple hundred bucks gets you what, a scouting trip?

You can ***** about playing against "cheaters" all day and I'll more than gladly rub elbows with any/all of them at my current "disadvantage".  The savvy recruiter gets the guys they want/need, regardless of the circumstances.  Again, if you have 2 teams in the same world and aren't using it to your advantage, you're dumb.

And lastly, again, you want to solve the problem...make FSS free for everyone, that levels the playing field.  The current "problem" is impossible to police, so why not just solve it?
8/14/2011 11:51 AM (edited)
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