Posted by professor17 on 3/20/2012 11:50:00 AM (view original):
Assuming all allegations made are true, I think Syracuse should receive an SMU-style death penalty and forfeit all wins dating back to 2001, which would include vacating the 2003 national championship. Between the drug testing, Bernie Fine scandal, and playing an ineligible player for much of this season, there's no question that this is the definition of lack of institutional control, and the program should be shut down. And I'm saying this as a Syracuse fan and supporter for the past 25 years.
You cannot possibly be an SU fan, or if you are, you are really just an idiot.
In the other thread you compared this to Baylor, just like ESPN tired to. Really? At Baylor 1 player MURDERED another, and the coach had everyone else lie to cover up the fact that the coach had been playing the player. Syracuse self reported (almost 2 years ago) that as many as 10 players (in 10 years) may have played after testing for recreational drugs. Yes, the NCAA has no official policy but they do step in if a self-imposed policy is not properly followed. But this "investigation" has been underway for 2 yrs and nothing has happened.
Bernie Fine - accuser #1 is Bobby Davis. #2 is his cousin Mike Lang. Lang denied he was abused when the internal investigation happened in 2003. There was no corroboration of Davis initial accusations until Lang changed his mind last year. Accuser #3 is Zach Tomaselli, a convicted child molester from Maine who has been proven a liar in every aspect of his story. He claimed his dad let him go on an unsupervised, overnight trip with the team shortly after meeting Fine. The team did not travel from Syracuse to the game in question (at Pittsburgh) because they had played on the road 2 days prior and traveled directly to Pittsburgh from there. On the day that Tomaselli claims to have been with Fine on the road his school attendance records show him in class. Every time he opens his mouth lies pour out. Here's the timeline of Tomaselli - His first action was to call in to the Colin Cowherd radio show where he told producers he too was molested by Fine. The producer got Tomaselli's contact info, and had reporter Mark Schwarz contact Tomaselli. Schwarz then had accuser #1 (Bobby Davis) call Tomaselli directly. AFTER that conversation between Tomaselli and Davis, Tomaselli called Syracuse police, stating not only had he gone on that road trip, but that on another occasion he had spent the night in Fine's house where Fine attempted to abuse him, but Tomaselli was able to turn him away. To verify this claim, he provided detailed descriptions of the interior of the Fine house. This, remember, was after speaking with Davis (who it was publicly known had "grown up" with the Fines and had spent countless hours in the Fine home and could easily have given Tomaselli his "verifying info"). At various times Tomaselli has admitted he lied to one news outlet (to keep his name in the story) then recanted that hours later to another outlet. He was already under arrest and awaiting sentancing for sexually abusing the teenage brother of a man he had been dating. Accuser #4 is a long time prison inmate who knew the Fines long ago and who added his story to the pile but later recanted in a later mailed to Fine (with a slightly different copy sent to the press) wherein he claims he made up the accusation to get even with what he perceived to be a slight by Fine who, at the time of this accuser's original trial declined to provide money for legal assistance that the accuser felt could have helped him get less prison time. His letter admitted he made everything up out of spite and he begs for forgiveness.
Davis (accuser #1) claims that he used to drive Laurie Fine (the wife of Bernie Fine) and the wife of another assistant coach to the players' dorms where the two wives would have sex with players. There has been nothing to corroborate any of these lurid accusations. He also apparently has borrowed or received money from Fine and not paid it back, causing a rift in the relationship between Fine and Davis. It is possible that FIne had some kind of untoward relationship with Davis, but the nature of it is unclear, and will likely never be known. There will be no trial or charges for Fine due to statutatory limitations on the time an accuser can bring charges for this offense. This means that not only will Fine not be found guilty of anything, he also will have no opportunity to have a court of law determine his innocence if he in fact did nothing illegal.
I have no idea what supposedly ineligible player we played all this season. Is he talking about Fab Melo? If professor has some information on this that I don't I'd love to hear it. The NCAA ruled on Melo's eligibility in January after Melo missed those 3 games and ruled he was eligible. The NCAA states they had nothing to do with the school's decision to sit Melo for the tourney. I have no idea what the hell is going on with Melo, but it sure doesn't seem like SU is trying to hide anything or sweep anything under the rug, since they have twice now held the player out rather than risk playing an ineligible player. The self-reported drug test issue concerns no players currently on the team according to officials.
So instead of hyperbole and bullshit, lets look at facts.
Fact - a former ballboy, who came from a broken home and spent a lot of time as a youngster at the Fine residence, who later had an affair with Laurie Fine and who is known to have an outstanding $5000 loan/gift/something from Bernie Fine accused the coach of improprieties in 2000 and 2003. Syracuse police and an external law firm contracted by SU were both unable to verify his claims or corroborate his story. Penn State happened, and now suddenly every coach everywhere is a suspected rapist, and suddenly Davis is credible. The FBI has executed search warrants on Fine's home and offices at SU and while they confiscated boxes of something, has levied no charges. The Syracuse DA says no charges can be filed, but did state he found Davis and Lang "credible" and presumably that means he would prosecute if he could. The Syracuse DA is also a well-known publicity hound who, during the early stages of this story, got into a very public ******* match with the police over who had the bigger dick basically. His opinion on credibility is not, I don't believe, enough to convict someone. I am pretty sure that the Syracuse DA has prosecuted cases he has lost at trial. Presumably he felt those accusers and "victims" were credible as well, but the evidenciary responsibilities were not met. It would be very hard to win a conviction in this case (Davis and Lang) based upon the inconsistencies of prior statements and overall lack of concrete evidence.
Fact - accusers #3 and 4 are lying.
Fact - SU apparently has a program in place to test athletes for recreational drug use (a program that does not target the general student population or other types of school administered scholarships) and is therefore probably unconstitutional in the first place. It is alleged (no one has seen the actual report outside of the NCAA) that as many as 10 players (none on this season's team) were allowed to play after the athletic department (not necessarily Coach Boeheim) were informed the players had failed drug tests. The NCAA is likely to hand down some kind of punishment for this "violation" (you know, the one where some college kids smoke some weed) at some point as it is their (the NCAA's) policy that IF a school institutes its own drug testing program it must follow its own policies.
Fact - Fab Melo was held out 3 games in January for an unspecified academic issue. he was cleared by the NCAA and played out the regular season and Big East tournament. On the eve of the NCAAs SU announced Melo was ineligible for the tourney. It was alluded that this was related to the initial suspension, but there has been no corroboration of that. The NCAA has issued a statement that the school, not the NCAA made this determination. Seth Davis has reported that this suspension is unrelated to the January event, while ESPN Big East blogger Dana O'Neil reports it IS related. I doubt we will ever know as the school keeps citing federal privacy laws and Melo has stopped tweeting or talking.
So basically, to be calling for an SMU type penalty here, you have to think that playing some kids that flunked the school's independent marijuana policy over 10 years (the only thing SU is certain to have done in violation of any rules) exhibits a glaring lack of institutional control.
I do apologize just a bit to professor. Ordinarily I believe everyone is entitled to their own (often ridiculous but whatever) opinion, and indeed when I saw the comments on al's thread I simply blocked professor. But billy had to dig deeper, so I felt compelled to respond. I have written numerous posts about this on the sbnation SU blog Troy Nunes is an Absolute Magician,
and have done a lot of research, especially as regards the Bernie Fine case. I have no legal authority to back anything I say up, but I ask any doubters to do some independent research into my account of things before you try to come back at me...