EE's are getting out of hand Topic

acn24
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Posted by jslotman on 4/25/2012 9:21:00 AM (view original):
While we're on the subject of stupid parts of the game, I'd like to nominate GPA for its randomness and the whole redshirt process. 
GPA should be eliminated way before EEs.  EEs can be tweaked and improved, but GPA is just insane for a couple of reasons:

1)  I am certain that in the real life, if a coach can practice x number of minutes per day, all those minutes are working on skills/team practice.  Study hall would be a requirement beyond the practice time.

2)  It is nuts to think that the 8 and 4 minutes of SH I have allocated to Rick Sarvis during his first two seasons have made it possible for him to pull a 3.5 at Duke.

Just eliminate study hall and grades all together. 
4/25/2012 9:30 AM
tianyi7886
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Update from CS. Only National Awards counts toward EE. 
4/25/2012 11:47 AM
girt25
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/25/2012 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Update from CS. Only National Awards counts toward EE. 
tianyi, it hurts Daddy when you doubt him. It really does.
4/25/2012 12:13 PM
tianyi7886
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Still doesn't quite explain how all the EE worthy bigs from 1 bid conf left. 
4/25/2012 12:22 PM
jslotman
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I look at the early entry system as some sort of HD version of the NHL's supplementary discipline wheel of justice. 
4/25/2012 12:59 PM
fd343ny
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/25/2012 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Update from CS. Only National Awards counts toward EE. 
keep in mind, even if only national awards COUNT toward EE, it may be that conference awards correlate with EE because what effects each are connected.....hard to know
4/25/2012 3:47 PM
oldresorter
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mid major or major, pretty words on the eval or not, if twenty EE's leave, if they are taken from the top twenty five or thirty underclassman in terms of tangible ratings we can all see, this problem goes away, IT IS THAT SIMPLE. 

In that regard, I think the words on evals, is more like part of the problem, than part of the solution, trying to get too fancy, too real life, too random, too much, just make it plain and simple.

By and large, hi rated guys go to BCS schools, and get drafted in real life, hi rated guys in this game tend to stay around longer, kick them out early, the problem fixes itself.  This one is not rocket science, unless one tries to make it so.
4/25/2012 4:29 PM
caesari
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I'm just spitballing here, not sure if it has been mentioned: 

What if GPA helped determine EEs?? I don't know if you guys have noticed, but most of the RL EEs aren't exactly pulling 4.0s. Sure, there will be some with good grades leave, but I think the closer to 2.0 they are, the more likely to leave.
4/25/2012 4:41 PM
girt25
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Posted by caesari on 4/25/2012 4:41:00 PM (view original):
I'm just spitballing here, not sure if it has been mentioned: 

What if GPA helped determine EEs?? I don't know if you guys have noticed, but most of the RL EEs aren't exactly pulling 4.0s. Sure, there will be some with good grades leave, but I think the closer to 2.0 they are, the more likely to leave.
Dear God, no. We need GPA to be less involved in the game, not more.

(And I don't think you really have any idea which kids are pulling GPA's in real life and which aren't ... haven't spent a fair amount of time around college hoops/football players, you'd be surprised.)
4/25/2012 6:00 PM
girt25
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Posted by oldresorter on 4/25/2012 4:29:00 PM (view original):
mid major or major, pretty words on the eval or not, if twenty EE's leave, if they are taken from the top twenty five or thirty underclassman in terms of tangible ratings we can all see, this problem goes away, IT IS THAT SIMPLE. 

In that regard, I think the words on evals, is more like part of the problem, than part of the solution, trying to get too fancy, too real life, too random, too much, just make it plain and simple.

By and large, hi rated guys go to BCS schools, and get drafted in real life, hi rated guys in this game tend to stay around longer, kick them out early, the problem fixes itself.  This one is not rocket science, unless one tries to make it so.
OR, I agree somewhat, but I don't think a system that is almost entirely predictable is any better than what we have now. I do think there should be some degree of randomness.
4/25/2012 6:01 PM
isack24
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"Random" and "predictable" are two different things, at least from our - the players' - point of view.  I don't want it predictable to the extent that I know who will leave every year, but I don't want really want randomness involved, either.  I'm fine with algorithms to which we are not privy, but I would like there to be a set reason why these players leave.  Frankly, I think the weighting they use for each determining factor is currently off, but the factors themselves may be fine.  Maybe just some minor tweaking would fix everything.

4/25/2012 6:08 PM
dacj501
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I'd like to point out that "BCS teams" is being tossed about as a term like that describes all BCS teams. I've been at a "BCS team" in Tark - Alabama - for over 15 seasons. I've had about a half dozen EEs  (one after a PIT 3rd, btw) and every time it destroys me for a couple seasons. As a bottom feeder (B baseline) BCS school I can't get the players to win the games to boost my prestige that I need to fight the other, bigger BCS schools for better players. In order to get better players I need better players, and I can't get them. When I occasionally do land one of the "better" players, he leaves early. When my players leave early, I'm still sitting at a B+ prestige and can't just reload with 3 new 5 stars.

Either that or I'm just not a good enough coach. That could be it, but I can't ***** at CS about that, so I'm going with door #1...
4/25/2012 9:43 PM
girt25
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Posted by isack24 on 4/25/2012 6:08:00 PM (view original):

"Random" and "predictable" are two different things, at least from our - the players' - point of view.  I don't want it predictable to the extent that I know who will leave every year, but I don't want really want randomness involved, either.  I'm fine with algorithms to which we are not privy, but I would like there to be a set reason why these players leave.  Frankly, I think the weighting they use for each determining factor is currently off, but the factors themselves may be fine.  Maybe just some minor tweaking would fix everything.

I tend to agree with that last sentence.

But I do think there is going to be (and should be) some degree of randomness. There would even be randomness in the algorithm ... if there wasn't, it would become pretty obvious pretty quickly how the guys were chosen and who they would be in coming seasons. There may be too much randomness now.
4/25/2012 11:01 PM
oldresorter
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Posted by girt25 on 4/25/2012 6:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oldresorter on 4/25/2012 4:29:00 PM (view original):
mid major or major, pretty words on the eval or not, if twenty EE's leave, if they are taken from the top twenty five or thirty underclassman in terms of tangible ratings we can all see, this problem goes away, IT IS THAT SIMPLE. 

In that regard, I think the words on evals, is more like part of the problem, than part of the solution, trying to get too fancy, too real life, too random, too much, just make it plain and simple.

By and large, hi rated guys go to BCS schools, and get drafted in real life, hi rated guys in this game tend to stay around longer, kick them out early, the problem fixes itself.  This one is not rocket science, unless one tries to make it so.
OR, I agree somewhat, but I don't think a system that is almost entirely predictable is any better than what we have now. I do think there should be some degree of randomness.
I don't want entirely predictable, I want the best players going pro, a surprise 932 pg taken as the second overall fine, not a unpredictable 752.  What I said was that the 20 EE's should come from the 25 or 30 BEST players, I don't think that is predictable, that is logical, has common sense, and would not offend near as many people.

Almost every single complaint starts, I had a low 800 something guy going EE, while big bad BCS powerhouse had THREE 900 something guys stay.  Don't let bad players go EE while good ones stay, there are plenty of good ones to pick from that stay, the key is to adjust the system so the bad ones stay, and the good ones go.  It really isn't that hard.

Predictability has NOTHING to do with this.
4/26/2012 6:51 AM
girt25
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Well, I don't really agree with that last sentence. Some people are commenting that essentially that they want more predictability and less randomness, and yes, your suggestion would result in predictability. Maybe not 100% predictability, but if the 20 EE's come from just a pool of the top 25-30 rated players, then yes, that's predictability. It may also feel more logical to you, but that doesn't mean it's not also predictable.

And I know in the past you've felt it should be harder for teams to lose numerous EE's -- do you still feel that way, and if so, would you want to see a safeguard in place so a handful of teams aren't losing 3-4 EE's? That would be as bad or worse than what happens currently.
4/26/2012 7:16 AM
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EE's are getting out of hand Topic
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