Name	ATH	SPD	REB	DEF	SB	LP	PER	BH	P	WE	ST	DUR	FT
Scott Hazlett	54	74	10	27	15	14	26	58	53	50	71	15	59.6
August Relf	51	60	7	32(L)	1	1	60	37	42	53	55	51	69.9
Spencer Patridge	25(L)	29	34(H)	27(H)	21	42	56	30	29	65	60	62	59.6
Kenneth Burkhart	62	27	37	64	37	32(H)	31	26	23(H)	68	67	54	51.1
Joe Roberts	48	24	68	30(L)	48	78	12	11	10	56	47(H)	25	54.1

This is my first time in D2, and I've never had a D3 team with a prestige of higher than C+. So I'm trying to figure out how to recruit D2 with a B+, and I'm not sure whether I'm doing alright or whether my standards are still at D3 level. It's especially tricky when I basically can't touch any good players to my south, because the Gulf South juggernaut picks them all off. 

Anyways, thoughts and/or advice would be appreciated. All of those players are freshman. Burkhart is an ineligible. Team is triangle/man. I think everything else should be self-explanatory. 

Looks like a pretty good-looking class to me.  Burkhart has the potential to be REALLY  good.  Nice job.

Burkhart went JUCO. I has a sad. 

Hazlett is ok.   He'll be a pretty  good PG but unless his PER is HIHI he won't be much of a scorer.    He's below average defensively.  I really try to get my perimeter defenders to be 70-70-70 (Ath/Spd/DEF) and he's gonna fall short of that.

Relf  should be able to score (although I like my 3 pt shooters to have BH around 70).  He is also an average defender at best.

Partridge is one of those guys who will be okay at everything but not great at anything.  A lot of guys like SF's like that.  I think the ATH in the low 50's is going  to hold him back.

I like Roberts.  If his DEF was 20 pooints higher I think you would have a tue stud.   As he is, or will be, a 70 ATH, 80 REB, 80 LP guy is pretty solid.   I honestly don't know how much block matters into DEF but in general I would rather have the 75 DEF, 55 BLK than the 55 DEF, 75 DEF he is gonna be.

In a nut shell, I think you grabbed okay players. It's a pretty solid job for a first try.  With that being said, those guys are "happy to make the NT" talent, not "significant run" in the NT   type of guys.

I would say that this will be your biggest source of info:

How to win at D2 and D3

The important thing that most people do not understand (it took me a long time too :D) is that ATH and DEF are very important at most positions.  If you want to make a deep run in the post season, you basically need a team average of 60/60 for ATH/DEF at Div-III ... a 67/67 for Div-2, and a 75/75 for Div-1.  Just look at the ATH/DEF for teams in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 in your division and you will see the goal levels for these attributes.

The advice in the aejones link is very good to get you going ... and remember how important ATH/DEF is

Yeah, I've already read that aejones thread a few times. I'm just having trouble finding players who meet the criteria. Even the potential pulldowns from the DI list seemed like they were full of guys with 45 (low) ATH. I did hit on a couple people with really strong ATH and DEF, but I got nipped by a low DI team on one and Gulf South teams on the rest. Well, and I signed Burkhart but he went JUCO. There were plenty of guys with DEF in the 40s but low or average potential, and I figured I was better off getting people around 30 with high potential (as you can see). I wonder if the answer is trying to do a little more recruiting nationally. I scouted pretty much only states within 400 miles this year. 

What I did feel like I did alright (and maybe y'all disagree) is signing a reasonably balanced class. Everybody has weaknesses, but wherever somebody has a weakness, I have someone else who's strong. Well, except for my defensive stopper who went to JUCO. Everybody else. I have somebody who can bring the ball up the floor, a couple guys who should be good shooters, a good scorer inside. Everybody was at least competent in DEF/ATH (won't have anyone below 45 in either), but as I said, it was hard to find people who were exceptional in those areas. 

Thanks for the thoughts, everybody. Hopefully these guys will at least keep me in the NT running while I try to figure out how to find guys who will push me farther than that. 

When I recruit I usually do it in three phases:

1.  DI pulldowns within 70 miles
2. DI dropdowns or DII recruits within 360 miles
3. A national search for whoever is left.

I find the difference between 2 and 3 very little.   I actually pulled down a recruit this season from 2000 miles away but it was late, only took 12 ST($8400) and I had 25k left after signing started.    The dude is an 80 ATH, 80 DEF to start.  I thought he was worth the gamble.

Don't settle, get better players.

Well, that's the same order that I've been recruiting (except I've tried D1 pulldowns all the way out to 200 miles. Without much success, because I always manage to pick a guy that a D-prestige DI team decides they like some time the next day). So I guess the lesson to learn here is that last bit. "Don't settle, get better players." Noted. Thanks. 

Two more questions:

1. Is the problem that these guys would be decent role players but that they need some studs interspersed, or do they all just need upgrading? 

2. I actually ended up with a whole lot of cash left over because I was in a four-way battle for Roberts and I was saving cash in case the other guys made a late push. Someone in the coaches' corner said that you can influence ineligibles to forego JUCO by spending a lot of money on them. Is this true? If it is, I'm kicking myself for saving cash for Roberts when I could've been convincing Burkhart to come to KWC. 

Posted by tarvolon on 11/12/2012 7:15:00 PM (view original):
Two more questions:

1. Is the problem that these guys would be decent role players but that they need some studs interspersed, or do they all just need upgrading? 

2. I actually ended up with a whole lot of cash left over because I was in a four-way battle for Roberts and I was saving cash in case the other guys made a late push. Someone in the coaches' corner said that you can influence ineligibles to forego JUCO by spending a lot of money on them. Is this true? If it is, I'm kicking myself for saving cash for Roberts when I could've been convincing Burkhart to come to KWC. 

1. a couple of them are in that category, but a couple will be pretty low ath and def and not really great players no matter what at D 2...

2. According to CS spending more increases the chances an ineligible will report but doesn't guarantee anything. I've had numerous kids report with just $110, and I've had some that I put 5k in go juco...

Went back looking for this post when I was trying to figure out what the caps were for some of my guys, now done with their sophomore year. Just goes to show how much recruiting can be a crap-shoot. 

*I am 100% happy with getting Hazlett. He's at 50 DEF and still has high potential, and he'll go into the 80s in both BH and P. PER will cap out in the 50s, but I'll take a good distributor and excellent defender. 

*Reif went from high to avg in PER the first day of practice. I basically got him to be my outside threat. Fortunately, a guy a year ahead of him who I'd thought was a reach had his PER go from the mid-30s to 79. . . and he still has high potential. I guess Reif is a fine backup SG, but I think I need to recruit over him. 

* Patridge is stuck in the 40s in both SPD and ATH. I was really hoping his SPD would go high enough to mitigate his lack of ATH. DEF and REB both crossed over into avg faster than I'd like too. Will still be a good shooter and rebounder from the SF position, but I'm worried about the speed and athleticism holding him back. Going to try to recruit over him too. 

*Roberts, who I thought would be the star of the class after Burkart went JUCO, had his ATH cross from high into avg on day one. His rebounding will go 85+ though, and 70/85/80 ATH/REB/LP is still pretty solid. If only his defense weren't stopping at 50. 

In HD is there a recruiting "vision" like in GD, where recent history and success determine which players you can "see" or have a chance to recruit? I would imagine success would warrant the ability to recruit higher rated players but at DII are there players I cant see to recruit? I ask this because my first season was terrible and then this last season was much better and I didn't know if the players I was scouting would still be the best I can go for when recruiting starts, or if my success will cause new players to show up in my recruiting search.

yes but instead of vision it is prestige and you can actually see what your prestige is unlike your vision in GD

Posted by swany623 on 2/14/2013 12:01:00 AM (view original):
yes but instead of vision it is prestige and you can actually see what your prestige is unlike your vision in GD

Cool thanks a lot