12/7/2012 12:41 AM
Great thread
12/7/2012 12:57 AM (edited)
And you Ryrun, when I deleted that first post that should have been enough for you to realize that it didn't need to be quoted, right?  Talk about trying to get some **** stirred up.  You saw that the post was deleted, yet you chose to quote and post it anyway.  Talk about someone being an ******.  So let me ask you ******, why WOULD you feel the need to quote that post after it had been deleted?  What's the point?  It was gone, so I had obviously had a change of heart, yet you decided that it would be best to quote it and post it anyway.  Why?  Why would you do that?  Looks to me like you're the one that was looking to be argumentative, otherwise why not just let it go?

And no, I'm not the "tough love guy", but trying working in a prison around society's angels and you might get a better understanding of why I think kids need to be grounded in reality and not live in some fairy tale world.  I've got way too many of those "angels" working for me who grew up thinking they were entitled because no one ever told them "No".  Well, guess what happens?  The first time someone does tell them "no", they don't have a clue on how to act because they've been given everything their whole lives and do indeed have that sense of entitlement.  Or they think growing up that since they've always got their way, that they don't have to follow society's rules.  They think that rules and laws don't apply to them and guess where that lands them?  Working for me for $5.25 a month, picking up cigarette butts, because they all grew up in a world where no one ever told them "no", where no one told them they were messing up, where no one offered any criticism, where they thought they were entitled.  The tough love guy?  Nope, just a realist.
12/7/2012 1:04 AM
Posted by tbird9423 on 12/6/2012 11:18:00 PM (view original):
Umm, guys, reality check, you're comparing yourselves to a middle schooler???  Umm, guys, reality check, your're comparing yourselves to a middle schooler!  I think I may have even come across a "back in the day..." which is translated into... "ignore whatever is coming next," for all but the most simple of individuals and bored spouses.
      The nice thing about it Deery is that you are young enough to do whatever you want and improve drastically (gain wisdom) in whatever area that may be.  If you were to improve that 5k time by even three seconds/ week for the next five years, you would be a world champion and three seconds a week really isn't that much.  Most of us are too old to be a world champion in anything so my two cents would be never listen to bitter has beens or never were's.   At the same time, any advice you are getting off a hoops dynasty bulletin board in regards to anything but hoops dynasty probably isn't worth too much weight, including my own. 
Oh, and Tbird, contrary to your opinion, knowledge and lessons can be learned ANYWHERE, even on an HD message board.  Shame on you for trying to convince the kid otherwise.
12/7/2012 1:06 AM
It's late, I'm going to bed and for some reason I can't post from work, so I'm done with my involvement with this thread.  It was, umm, interesting to say the least.  Good night all and no hard feelings towards anyone.  After all, we're all just anonymous names on a computer screen.  Have a great day tomorrow.
12/7/2012 8:52 AM
How would I have quoted it if it was deleted before I quoted it?  I obviously quoted it either as you were deleting it or before.  Takes a real genius to figure that piece out.  And the fact that you deleted it shows that you do know you were being a d-bag for posting it.  Not my fault that you posted something you later regretted - that's all you had to say instead of getting up on your soap box about kids today and entitlement issues and blah, blah, blah.
12/7/2012 10:08 AM (edited)
Posted by ryrun on 12/7/2012 8:52:00 AM (view original):
How would I have quoted it if it was deleted before I quoted it?  I obviously quoted it either as you were deleting it or before.  Takes a real genius to figure that piece out.  And the fact that you deleted it shows that you do know you were being a d-bag for posting it.  Not my fault that you posted something you later regretted - that's all you had to say instead of getting up on your soap box about kids today and entitlement issues and blah, blah, blah.
You right Ryrun, you obviously did quote it before it was deleted.  And once you saw that it had been deleted, there was really no need to requote it then, was there?  Only reason I can think that someone would do that is if he were trying to stir up trouble.  Why not just let it go at that point?  Again, once you saw that it had been removed, what does it accomplish to requote it?  Why even do that?  Ehh, whatever, I'm off to work.  Have a good day everyone. 
12/7/2012 10:09 AM
Posted by emy1013 on 12/7/2012 10:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ryrun on 12/7/2012 8:52:00 AM (view original):
How would I have quoted it if it was deleted before I quoted it?  I obviously quoted it either as you were deleting it or before.  Takes a real genius to figure that piece out.  And the fact that you deleted it shows that you do know you were being a d-bag for posting it.  Not my fault that you posted something you later regretted - that's all you had to say instead of getting up on your soap box about kids today and entitlement issues and blah, blah, blah.
You right Ryrun, you obviously did quote it before it was deleted.  And once you saw that it had been deleted, there was really no need to requote it then, was there?  Only reason I can think that someone would do that is if he were trying to stir up trouble.  Why not just let it go at that point?  Again, once you saw that it had been removed, what does it accomplish to requote it?  Why even do that?  Ehh, whatever, I'm off to work.  Have a good day everyone. 
Not my job to monitor the status of your posts, emy.  Sorry I don't go back and double check to see that all the posts I quote haven't been deleted.  I quoted it as a reference point, not to keep it there in case you deleted it.

You easily could have sent me a message saying "hey, I deleted my post, mind deleting yours?" and I gladly would have.
12/7/2012 10:16 AM
Posted by emy1013 on 12/7/2012 12:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 12/7/2012 12:06:00 AM (view original):
Some pretty ridiculous soapboxing going on here.
Then why even post? 

To point out that there was some pretty ridiculous soapboxing going on here.

I guess I figured that was obvious.

12/7/2012 2:18 PM
First, times in a 5K (or any distance, really) are highly subjective to the specific goals of the runner in question. What is an amazingly fast time for one runner could be incredibly slow for another. An Olympic marathoner is going to think just about anyone is slow. Someone who walks most of the course would think most people are fast. Because it is so subjective to the individual runner, classifying times as "fast" or "slow" or anything similar is usually a gross over-generalization of the true situation.

Second, a 24:00 5K time is good, especially considering his age and the fact he has plenty of time to develop his abilities further. Many recreational runners set a goal of breaking 25:00 and for some of them that doesn't come easily or without much training.

Third, while I agree most high school XC coaches don't have a plan and they should because it is a sport that requires more training than most others and involves far more than simply running far as fast as you can, I think criticism of those who do try to take on the job (especially if there are no others who will do it) is a disservice to the sport. Runners in XC want to be able to compete first, and while they'd love to have a great coach who will make them much better, they'd rather run than not run at all.
12/7/2012 2:33 PM
Posted by ryrun on 12/7/2012 12:31:00 AM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 12/6/2012 10:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ryrun on 12/6/2012 9:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 12/6/2012 9:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by andrew5975 on 12/6/2012 6:36:00 PM (view original):

24:00 isnt too bad...especially if you dont run regularly. 5k is 3.1 miles...so you ran a little under 8 minutes/mile. your profile says you are under 18...if thats so...a few guys on my high school x-country team used to run slower times than that...perhaps you should think about joining! ;)

8 minute miles is what we used to run in formation in the military.  Sorry, but that isn't anything special, it's just not.  Even for a middle schooler.

Rain... parade...

Everyone starts somewhere.  Keep at it.
I deleted my post initially because I didn't want the kid too feel bad, but since you decided to quote it and put it up there anyway, I guess I'll have to respond.  There's no need to sugar coat it for this kid, what he did was nothing special.  At all.  Since when did it become a rule that we're not allowed to "rain on anyone's parade" and always have to kiss *** in these posts.  Hey kid, you ran at an 8 minute mile pace for 3 miles.  Good for you, but the reality is that it's nothing special.  So if you want to call it raining on his parade, fine, that's your choice.  But I'm from the camp that doesn't think every kid should get a blue ribbon or a trophy just for participating.  Do something special and I'll be the first one in line to congratulate you.  Do something average and brag about it?  Well, I'll probably be first in line to call you out on it.

It's far past time to stop treating all these kids like they're perfect and can do no wrong.  I see it all the time at my boy's soccer games, parents telling their kids that they played a perfect or awesome game when in reality, they played like crap.  Keep coddling these kids and coddling these kids and you end up with a bunch of young adults who think they're entitled to something when they finally hit the real world and have no idea what to do when they take their first *** chewing because they've been handled with kiddy gloves their whole lives.  When it's time to make it in the real world and they can't because they've been sheltered their whole lives, what then?  Do they run back to mommy crying because someone said something mean to them?  Yep, I guess I rained on his parade.  Maybe he'll get ****** because I did and go out and train and train and become the best 5k runner in history and I really hope he does.  Or maybe he'll go sulk in his room because he didn't get praise from each and every one who posted.  But I'm sorry, I'm not going to prop this kid up and make him think he did something special when he really didn't.  And you can quote that if you would like.  Have a nice day.

Oh, and by the way, Deery I hope you do continue to run and train and end up lowering your time.  It sounds like you've found something you like to do, so stick with it.  And when you do come in first in one of your races, you can tell that emy guy to kiss your 5k running, first place ***!
You appear to just be in an argumentative mood, but whatever.  The last three sentences of that quoted post should be all you really needed to write, otherwise... or just nothing at all rather than just inviting responses.

I ran on a full scholarship in XC and track all four years at my college.  I wasn't fast in middle school - I actually was pretty below average, probably.  But I had a coach who really didn't focus on training us into the ground, he coached us to enjoy the sport so that you'd stick with it.  Middle school and, for the most part, high school running aren't for grinding out miles and pounding the pavement - they're for establishing an enjoyment of the sport... just as most any sport played at that age should be.  I had the exact opposite experience in other sports - coaches taking things way too seriously way too early and burning a lot of his athletes out before we were even juniors in HS.  I didn't take training seriously until I was a soph or junior in HS.  People used to ask if I wished I'd trained harder and taken it more seriously early on - and the answer is always no.  You push a kid when he doesn't want to be pushed and it becomes a chore - the maturity usually just isn't there for them to understand that they'll be better off in five years because you pushed them now.

The reality is that, very frequently, high school coaches have NO idea what they're doing when training distance runners.  You get the driver's ed teacher who ran a mile once coaching XC, just telling kids to go run until they can't run anymore - no speed workouts, no hill work, nothing in the weight room... just go run and don't get hit by a car.  Or worse, just go run laps around the track or the soccer fields while the coach sits in the middle and barks at them over a loudspeaker (seen it happen, more than once - even by one of the best HS teams in Illinois).  Hell, even a decent percentage of lower division college coaches really have no plan.  Aside from not being helpful for developing their talents, it's also just inviting injuries.

Honestly - do you think your criticism of him is really going to light some fire underneath him?  Like he's going to immediately close his browser, lace up his shoes and go for a ten miler, cursing this faceless "emy" guy the entire time while he blazes a trail through town?  What's the point?  Why not take a moment and try to make a kid (he's a KID) feel good about himself?  Or at least just ignoring the post and not needlessly telling him he's nothing special.  What's so difficult about that?  Yea, probably shouldn't have made a "look at me" thread... but again... kid.  It's not "sheltering" him to give him encouragement - nobody said "hey, you're on WR pace, way to go!" or that what he did was all that special.  One guy said to try out for the HS team - doubt he was dreaming of the 2020 Olympics after that comment. 

Oh, but you're the "tough love" guy, just trying to get the kid ready for the real world, right?  Or trying to motivate him to be better?  Just as there's no rule saying you're not allowed to "rain on anyone's parade", there's no rule saying I can't call someone an ****** when they're obviously just trying to be an ******.  If you want to get pissy about it, that's fine.  Have a nice day.
Not really following this thread in great detail, but I completely agree with you and want to point out when you say emy could just "ignore the post and not needlessly tell him he's nothing special."

Not everyone here is an adult, and knowing that deery is a middle schooler, why even bother? When I was that age, I'd be perfectly fine with constructive criticism and would be more upset if someone were to sugarcoat things for me than if they were to tell me the truth. But that's because I was a serious and competitive athlete. You don't know deery personally. Why risk upsetting a middle schooler (as an adult) on an Internet forum?

So many times there are negative posts in certain threads, but in one like this people should try to abstain from doing just that.
12/7/2012 10:36 PM
Posted by isack24 on 12/7/2012 10:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 12/7/2012 12:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 12/7/2012 12:06:00 AM (view original):
Some pretty ridiculous soapboxing going on here.
Then why even post? 

To point out that there was some pretty ridiculous soapboxing going on here.

I guess I figured that was obvious.

lol
12/7/2012 10:43 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 12/7/2012 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 12/7/2012 12:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 12/7/2012 12:10:00 AM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 12/6/2012 11:55:00 PM (view original):
Erik, you're awesome dude...lol
Haven't heard from you in awhile Trevor, how have things been going?
Decent I guess, how about you?
Despite how it would seem based on my posts tonight, pretty good actually.  Don't see you around the forums much any more.  I actually don't visit often either.  It's just not the same without a thread going where the whole HD community is against the Colonel!
Lol, good to hear it man.  I don't really have/make time to be on the boards too much complaining about nonsense, and on top of that, HD is maybe my favorite game in anything, anywhere right now, it's incredibly solid, top-down and I truly enjoy everything about it.

To be honest, it's probably best for everyone involved that "going colonels19" on a thread/post/someone doesn't happen (that much?) any more...I'm not proud of some of the arguments that I've gotten in here, as some of them have just been a complete and utter waste of time.  Perhaps I've just mellowed a bit, though I never feel like I was that crazy (personally) to begin with...I'm the same guy, just been sandpapered a bit I think.

I learned a lot when I stopped ******** and started paying attention...there are a lot of cool cats here...you're probably at the top of the list.

12/8/2012 12:12 AM
Posted by colonels19 on 12/7/2012 10:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 12/7/2012 12:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 12/7/2012 12:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 12/7/2012 12:10:00 AM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 12/6/2012 11:55:00 PM (view original):
Erik, you're awesome dude...lol
Haven't heard from you in awhile Trevor, how have things been going?
Decent I guess, how about you?
Despite how it would seem based on my posts tonight, pretty good actually.  Don't see you around the forums much any more.  I actually don't visit often either.  It's just not the same without a thread going where the whole HD community is against the Colonel!
Lol, good to hear it man.  I don't really have/make time to be on the boards too much complaining about nonsense, and on top of that, HD is maybe my favorite game in anything, anywhere right now, it's incredibly solid, top-down and I truly enjoy everything about it.

To be honest, it's probably best for everyone involved that "going colonels19" on a thread/post/someone doesn't happen (that much?) any more...I'm not proud of some of the arguments that I've gotten in here, as some of them have just been a complete and utter waste of time.  Perhaps I've just mellowed a bit, though I never feel like I was that crazy (personally) to begin with...I'm the same guy, just been sandpapered a bit I think.

I learned a lot when I stopped ******** and started paying attention...there are a lot of cool cats here...you're probably at the top of the list.

Ha, certainly not at the top in some/many people's eyes.  Oh well, you can't make everyone happy.  Glad to hear you're doing well though.  Take care and pop into the forums every once in awhile.  You sure do tend to liven up a thread, ha ha!
12/8/2012 12:26 AM
Lol thanks man, I hope to...I feel like I have a lot more arguments in me, but I'm just a lot more civil?  Maybe I'll just troll something out there soon, just for old time's sake...you're one of the few that appreciates my stance(s)...got nothin ahora lol
12/8/2012 1:44 AM
Posted by colonels19 on 12/8/2012 12:26:00 AM (view original):
Lol thanks man, I hope to...I feel like I have a lot more arguments in me, but I'm just a lot more civil?  Maybe I'll just troll something out there soon, just for old time's sake...you're one of the few that appreciates my stance(s)...got nothin ahora lol
I think I may also be one of very few who would actually read and take the time to think about what you had posted instead of automatically disagreeing and dismissing your thoughts just because it was you who had posted them.  Most of these guys see that Colonels19 had posted something and they automatically got out their claws and were determined to rip it apart, simply because it was you who had posted it.  Sadly, they missed out on a whole lot of great ideas, just because they never took their blinders off.  And speaking of off, it's late, time for some sleep before I tangle with the "angels of society" again tomorrow.  Again, take care Trevor and don't be a stranger. 
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