All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Picking up a second team
12/7/2012 9:19 PM

Can I move up from DIII with my Wabash Team to a DII team and then using the same coach name get Wabash again. Is that even clear?

12/7/2012 9:26 PM
it's clear, but you cannot do it. 

you'll need to create a new ID and hope to claim Wabash. 

12/10/2012 12:06 PM
LOL. Be careful. That's a slippery slope. That the exact path chosen by many of us who end up with multiple ID's and eventually too many teams.
12/10/2012 12:35 PM
if you pick up multiple teams, use different URLs for them to avoid having to log in/out all the time. you can use:
whatifsports.com
www.whatifsports.com
wisjournal.com
whatif.cincinnati.com
<havent tried those last two with the www. as i never had more than 4 accounts)
12/10/2012 7:18 PM
also be mindful of the 1000 mile rule to avoid other people starting issues over it. I had to give up a team I built because they were too close together and got a message from WIS about it because someone complained.
12/10/2012 8:57 PM
Posted by poncho0091 on 12/10/2012 7:18:00 PM (view original):
also be mindful of the 1000 mile rule to avoid other people starting issues over it. I had to give up a team I built because they were too close together and got a message from WIS about it because someone complained.
what divisions were your 2 teams in? ive yet to hear there was any restriction with respect to multiple divisions.
12/10/2012 10:23 PM
Posted by coach_billyg on 12/10/2012 8:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by poncho0091 on 12/10/2012 7:18:00 PM (view original):
also be mindful of the 1000 mile rule to avoid other people starting issues over it. I had to give up a team I built because they were too close together and got a message from WIS about it because someone complained.
what divisions were your 2 teams in? ive yet to hear there was any restriction with respect to multiple divisions.
iv'e heard of this rule and actually saw someone have to give up there team. dnt remember what world though.
12/10/2012 10:52 PM
Posted by patsrule755 on 12/10/2012 10:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by coach_billyg on 12/10/2012 8:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by poncho0091 on 12/10/2012 7:18:00 PM (view original):
also be mindful of the 1000 mile rule to avoid other people starting issues over it. I had to give up a team I built because they were too close together and got a message from WIS about it because someone complained.
what divisions were your 2 teams in? ive yet to hear there was any restriction with respect to multiple divisions.
iv'e heard of this rule and actually saw someone have to give up there team. dnt remember what world though.
ive had to give up a team in the same division, but the rule was always that you could have teams in multiple divisions, didnt matter where. the new wording of the fair play guidelines doesnt specify. if you just read as written, you might say, well, it says 1000 miles, so that is regardless of division. but their wording doesnt line up with what they mean there, all the time, and with the historic context being different divisions were ALWAYS ok, i mean ALWAYS, i would expect them to have specified if they changed it. but who the hell knows with WIS. id really rather not know to be honest. its retarded if the rule is that way, i can understand the same division issue though so i like to just assume its that way until proven other wise.
12/11/2012 12:19 AM
If two teams are close by, even if they are in different divisions, what's to stop you from sharing FSS info between two schools? 
12/11/2012 8:51 AM (edited)
Posted by citizenkyle2 on 12/11/2012 12:19:00 AM (view original):
If two teams are close by, even if they are in different divisions, what's to stop you from sharing FSS info between two schools? 
the same thing that stops you from sharing FSS with friends, conference mates, or IDs of your own that you don't reveal are your own - nothing (well, something - the good and/or competitive nature in the majority of coaches, and the vast majority of highly competitive coaches). the reality is if you want to abuse the situation, you can, and nobody is going to stop you. so setting out to create a rule set that accomplishes this is somewhat ridiculous, i am sure there are guys out there sharing FSS data with themselves, but i very much doubt its many of the guys who openly share multiple IDs because they cared so much about a team in a world, they couldn't bear to lose it.

the reason d1 distance makes sense (although i disagree with the overall figure) is that it just creates bad situations. what if im 200 miles from the same school, on two programs, and want to battle them each for a player - even if its totally legit, obviously in my programs' best intentions without any interaction between the two, its obviously not going to sit well with, and probably ruin the experience of, the coach stuck in the middle. so i can understand that, but i can't get behind any proposition that stops good coaches from enjoying the game for the reason that you can cheat if you want to - because you can anyway, with or without that proposition, with a relatively equal level of effort.
12/11/2012 9:16 AM
no to mention that the distance thing doesn't stop cheating either. I have a RL friend who was in the Big 12, got attacked on a recruit by a Pac-10 team. When the attack happened he emailed me and said "this doesn't make any sense-- this California team has no chance at my player in TX, but they sure can make me waste money on him"... then he later learned the pac-10 was also run by a conference mate with whom he was also in a battle. sketchy as hell. and there's really nothing WiS can do about it. it seems to have been a one-off, but we're sure as hell watching that guy now.

sure, they can screw one/both of this guy's teams, but what's to stop me or billyg or any of the other hundreds of coaches out there from doing similar things with alt IDs? just our consciences...

12/11/2012 10:34 AM (edited)
exactly like wronoj says... distance doesn't stop cheating (and you can so easily not reveal your alt IDs and circumvent distance restrictions - why penalize those who make the effort to be open and honest about the situation?). even for FSS scouting, i usually scout my local area on every single team, but then its almost random where i pick to scout elsewhere. well, not random, i mean its based on who looks good who is unscouted combined with some areas ive had success, and where i dont know of a great local coach who would already have grabbed any gems. but effectively, that could be anywhere. if i used my scouting data from d1 teams for d2 or d3 teams, it really doesnt matter at all where that d1 team was, it would be a significant advantage.

all that stops the coaches who dont cheat is morals, or the appreciation of strategy games, or whatever, not some flimsy WIS rules that are rarely enforced anyway. they only do something if someone complains. and usually, people only complain if its like, too close, or same conference (some people have had teams in the same conference forever though without incident, i know of some right now in fact, but i wouldn't reveal them, because i know them to be upstanding guys and dont want to risk someone ******** stupidly) - or the big one - someone is doing some shady **** and you dont want them doing it near you. when i picked up d1 colorado and built it into a power house, 6 seasons into my d1 career, and a couple seasons later when i went to texas a&m - i was BLOWN AWAY by the number of people who asked me for recruiting info - it was easily a half dozen in that many months. so really, my concern for cheating is much more about recruiting shadiness between unknown parties than decent individuals cheating with themselves - which is usually pretty obvious. strangely, by the time i got to kentucky, only 1 coach asked me to collude - maybe the colluders have a network, and say who to approach and who not to, but i like to think thats just crazy conspiracy theory. or maybe i was just winning too many titles at once and people were afraid of me at coloardo/a&m - it was always people asking who i wanted, so they could look elsewhere, not making trades. when i got to UK, it became instantly apparent how far from a great d1 recruiter was, so maybe nobody (well, just 1 guy did, but thats it) felt it was even worth trying to avoid me anymore. i think thats a lot more plausible than the colluder network theory :)
12/11/2012 3:14 PM
Posted by coach_billyg on 12/10/2012 8:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by poncho0091 on 12/10/2012 7:18:00 PM (view original):
also be mindful of the 1000 mile rule to avoid other people starting issues over it. I had to give up a team I built because they were too close together and got a message from WIS about it because someone complained.
what divisions were your 2 teams in? ive yet to hear there was any restriction with respect to multiple divisions.
Billy, one team was in DII and the other was in DIII. I even specifically named my user names nearly the same so it would be obvious. I picked up the DIII team because I wanted to relive some of my early HD memories with my old team which was fairly close to my DII team (oregon and Cali). I played fairly and scouted both states with both teams because those were my 2 states to recruit from. Either way, there was a DII dropdown from cali that I started recruiting with my DIII team and ended up winning him, but someone reported it, because my DII team is in Cali and I got a message from WIS stating that 2 teams in the same world is frowned upon, but at the very least my teams had to be so far apart. I don't remember exactly what the message had for miles, but roughly 1000. So I moved to a DIII team in Milwaukee.

The biggest thing that annoyed the crap out of me is that my team I left made an elite 8 run the next season with the new coach. FML. I just just finally gotten the team where I wanted it and had some studs. I left a stud team and almost everyone of my recruits were Oregon recruits (homestate) except for 1 or 2.

12/11/2012 3:16 PM
I believe I know who reported me as well, because he was in a battle with me for 2 different recruits, one against my DII team and one against my DIII team.
12/11/2012 4:39 PM
Some People are just dicks. And if they lose a battle it HAS to be because you cheated, not that they are incompetent or simply didn't recruit well for whatever reason.

The rule is stupid, but it's almost a requirement to have a rule like that for the whiners. WIS doesn't actively seek to enforce it and they COULD, if they were committed to doing so. Again, people could and would find ways around even active enforcement. That's just the nature of people in general.

I have multiple ID's. I have more than 1 team in 1 world. I have had multiple teams in the same conference on more than one occasion. NO ONE whined about this PRIOR to FSS being implemented that I know of personally. I like certain worlds for whatever reason and 1 team isn't always enough. When Potential was first introduced and the FSS implemented there were whole conferences sharing FSS info as well as conferences sharing with other conferences and NO ONE felt like they were at a disadvantage due to everyone pooling together, saving money and sharing info. Why? Because at the end of the day, you still have to recruit the guys for your team. Were there battles between people who'd shared info? HELL YES there were battles. Lots of them. ( to be clear here, I am speaking of well known, well respected, veteran coaches in top conferences at elite teams as well as lesser known and lesser experienced coaches)

Shady tactics are just that. SHADY. I don't NEED to know anyone's potential to screw you with shady tactics. There are literally a hundred teams in every world in every season that are available for anyone to pick up, use them to screw whoever they wish to screw and simply walk away afterwards without a backward thought. FSS sharing is simply the quickest way to get a response from WIS whenever someone feels the need to tattle on someone or get revenge for a real or a perceived screwing.

On the other hand, I don't NEED to know a recruits potential to recruit them. We ALL know who the good coaches are in each and every world. PART of what makes you a good coach is the ability to discern good or great talent from the rest of the crap talent out there. By simply looking at WHO is recruiting WHO, I can recruit after good talent without spending a dime on FSS. I am 100% positive that there ARE people who recruit this way. Not a single doubt in my mind about that, even without an outright admission of it. Again, at the end of the day, regardless of whatever advantage you have or don't have, you STILL have to do the recruiting. Also at the end of the day, shady people are going to do shady things. That's simply the way it is and the way it will always be.
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