2/24/2013 2:18 PM
i essentially agree with the complaint that once you make it to d1, you should be able to get back. i agree with that sentiment even in this case after a ghost shipping - if you played this game to the point you made d1, and got burnt out, the best action is probably to let users pick up where they left off. 

however, i definitely agree with the other side of the coin - colonels, its totally inaccurate when you suggest 95% of coaches wouldnt be turned off by getting beaten to a pulp when they got to d1. a lot of coaches get turned off by that, and thats why i think it makes sense to limit coaches from getting to d1. i actually think the bar is TOO LOW right now. making NT1 for a couple seasons in *no way* prepares you for d1. there are usually at least 50 or 75 coaches who've had dramatically more success in lower divisions with a lot of d1 experience, which makes coming to d1 and hitting the ground running, very difficult. i dont think you have to make the NT right away to enjoy d1 - but failing to even come close to the post season for an extended period, that definitely takes its toll.

but, for the coaches who went to d1, got their ***** handed to them - or, simply didn't stay long (the first couple seasons in d1, by virtue of being a rebuild, are not going to look good, even for experienced coaches - ive pulled worst in the nation seasons on multiple d1 rebuilds, all after my 5/9 run. i even beat out EVERY sim for worst team in the world, previously i'd only managed worst human team in the world, with my 0-27 club over in phlean) - anyway, if those coaches aren't turned off, and they are hungry for more, i think they should be allowed. their lack of immediate success at their first d1 gig just means they are like 98% of other coaches out there. once they past the test to make d1, i think they should be allowed back, forever. but, up that bar a bit, so you are really only letting through guys who built decently successful teams with their own players. 
2/24/2013 2:24 PM
i'd actually apply this thinking cross world as well... feel pretty strongly about that actually, would be curious if others see problems with a model like that. im not saying being eligible for an a+ elite in 1 world gets you a shot at it in another without playing there, just that you can join any division at the ground level, if you've had decent success at that level, anywhere else. so maybe once you make the s16 in one world in d2, want to pick up another team, you can jump to any team up to say a d2 b- in any other world during applications (losing to anyone in the same world by default, if multiple coaches want the same team), or take any available d2 team after applications are over. same for d1, except probably only up to like, a d+.
2/24/2013 2:50 PM (edited)
Posted by emy1013 on 2/24/2013 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tcochran on 2/24/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 2/23/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
agree......you let a team most likely run it self into the ground, and then expect that you should be allowed to maybe do the same again automatically?
You realize these are SIM AI teams that nobody in the history of the world has wanted to coach, right?  I am paying WIS to play and I'm not harming anybody else even if I did let another team go on autopilot.  I realize now how WIS gets away from poor service and lack of updates to their games - it's because they've got so many tards like this playing.
Yes, you are harming other coaches by letting your team go on autopilot.  Everyone in your conference had to face a ghost ship team, which in turn hurt their RPI/SOS, their seedings in the NT (or may have caused a borderline team to miss the tourney altogether), potentially lowered their odds of winning a game in the NT because of a worse seed, which translates into THEM getting less credits (real money) for their seasons.  So, yes, every other human team in your conference suffered by you ghost shipping your team.
And a ghostship team is WORSE than a SIMAI team. SIMAI teams can be at least somewhat competitive. A ghosted team will be SIMAI team if no actions are taken, but if you login or even do a phone call for recruiting then you take a bunch of walkons.

This is much worse than a SIM team for the other Conference Players.

Did Bobby Peterno get to go back and coach at a BCS school after he walked out on 2 teams ... NOPE.

If you abandoned a team, and you obviously don't think it is a big deal, then why would you not do it again?
2/24/2013 5:18 PM
Posted by hughesjr on 2/24/2013 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 2/24/2013 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tcochran on 2/24/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 2/23/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
agree......you let a team most likely run it self into the ground, and then expect that you should be allowed to maybe do the same again automatically?
You realize these are SIM AI teams that nobody in the history of the world has wanted to coach, right?  I am paying WIS to play and I'm not harming anybody else even if I did let another team go on autopilot.  I realize now how WIS gets away from poor service and lack of updates to their games - it's because they've got so many tards like this playing.
Yes, you are harming other coaches by letting your team go on autopilot.  Everyone in your conference had to face a ghost ship team, which in turn hurt their RPI/SOS, their seedings in the NT (or may have caused a borderline team to miss the tourney altogether), potentially lowered their odds of winning a game in the NT because of a worse seed, which translates into THEM getting less credits (real money) for their seasons.  So, yes, every other human team in your conference suffered by you ghost shipping your team.
And a ghostship team is WORSE than a SIMAI team. SIMAI teams can be at least somewhat competitive. A ghosted team will be SIMAI team if no actions are taken, but if you login or even do a phone call for recruiting then you take a bunch of walkons.

This is much worse than a SIM team for the other Conference Players.

Did Bobby Peterno get to go back and coach at a BCS school after he walked out on 2 teams ... NOPE.

If you abandoned a team, and you obviously don't think it is a big deal, then why would you not do it again?
Exactly.
2/24/2013 5:19 PM
Posted by hughesjr on 2/24/2013 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 2/24/2013 11:22:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tcochran on 2/24/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 2/23/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
agree......you let a team most likely run it self into the ground, and then expect that you should be allowed to maybe do the same again automatically?
You realize these are SIM AI teams that nobody in the history of the world has wanted to coach, right?  I am paying WIS to play and I'm not harming anybody else even if I did let another team go on autopilot.  I realize now how WIS gets away from poor service and lack of updates to their games - it's because they've got so many tards like this playing.
Yes, you are harming other coaches by letting your team go on autopilot.  Everyone in your conference had to face a ghost ship team, which in turn hurt their RPI/SOS, their seedings in the NT (or may have caused a borderline team to miss the tourney altogether), potentially lowered their odds of winning a game in the NT because of a worse seed, which translates into THEM getting less credits (real money) for their seasons.  So, yes, every other human team in your conference suffered by you ghost shipping your team.
And a ghostship team is WORSE than a SIMAI team. SIMAI teams can be at least somewhat competitive. A ghosted team will be SIMAI team if no actions are taken, but if you login or even do a phone call for recruiting then you take a bunch of walkons.

This is much worse than a SIM team for the other Conference Players.

Did Bobby Peterno get to go back and coach at a BCS school after he walked out on 2 teams ... NOPE.

If you abandoned a team, and you obviously don't think it is a big deal, then why would you not do it again?
Actually I think Petrino did...left Louisville, left Atlanta and went to Arkansas...
2/24/2013 5:25 PM (edited)
Come on man, never let the truth get in the way of your point!  ;)

But he did have to take a year off and a step backwards after the Arkansas debacle.
2/24/2013 5:30 PM
Posted by coach_billyg on 2/24/2013 2:19:00 PM (view original):
i essentially agree with the complaint that once you make it to d1, you should be able to get back. i agree with that sentiment even in this case after a ghost shipping - if you played this game to the point you made d1, and got burnt out, the best action is probably to let users pick up where they left off. 

however, i definitely agree with the other side of the coin - colonels, its totally inaccurate when you suggest 95% of coaches wouldnt be turned off by getting beaten to a pulp when they got to d1. a lot of coaches get turned off by that, and thats why i think it makes sense to limit coaches from getting to d1. i actually think the bar is TOO LOW right now. making NT1 for a couple seasons in *no way* prepares you for d1. there are usually at least 50 or 75 coaches who've had dramatically more success in lower divisions with a lot of d1 experience, which makes coming to d1 and hitting the ground running, very difficult. i dont think you have to make the NT right away to enjoy d1 - but failing to even come close to the post season for an extended period, that definitely takes its toll.

but, for the coaches who went to d1, got their ***** handed to them - or, simply didn't stay long (the first couple seasons in d1, by virtue of being a rebuild, are not going to look good, even for experienced coaches - ive pulled worst in the nation seasons on multiple d1 rebuilds, all after my 5/9 run. i even beat out EVERY sim for worst team in the world, previously i'd only managed worst human team in the world, with my 0-27 club over in phlean) - anyway, if those coaches aren't turned off, and they are hungry for more, i think they should be allowed. their lack of immediate success at their first d1 gig just means they are like 98% of other coaches out there. once they past the test to make d1, i think they should be allowed back, forever. but, up that bar a bit, so you are really only letting through guys who built decently successful teams with their own players. 
But billyg, you can play D2 all you like, but it's not necessarily going to help you at D1.  Sure it will fine tune your recruiting/gameplanning skills, but like you say/suggest, D1 is a whole different monster in and of itself and takes its own degree of getting used to, and you're never really going to get used to it, unless you play in it, whether you're getting your *** kicked or not.

Maybe in my optimism, I overshot on the willingness to succeed percentage at D1, but why wouldn't you?  It's the pinnacle of the game, it's the div with the teams that everyone knows, with the best coaches in HD, I just don't get why you wouldn't want to stay/try to get better...practice makes perfect.  I remember when I made my first ever NT with Armstrong Atlantic State in D2 Tark and my first NT game was v. the almighty coach_billyg at SIUE, I was thrilled, I remember posting here and on the conference board about it.  I went up to D1 after that but left after 2 seasons due to money issues and the desire to take over a virgin team (that I've coached for almost 30 seasons now), the Mount Olive Trojans in Phelan.

Ghost-shipping and sabotage are certainly concerns at any level, but I believe intent matters as well.  I'd personally give tcochran another shot, but then again I'm kind of in the same boat that he's in (coached D1 and now not eligible) though the circs are different.  Again I'd rather have a guy playing, even if a bit out of their depth, than sitting, refusing to play because of principle.

Lastly, comparing this jobs process to real life is ridiculous, so please stop....apples...oranges...

2/24/2013 5:56 PM (edited)
I must be missing something here... THE OP has a history of HD of
238-218 (0.522)  16 full seasons
Conference Championships
1
If this is correct and he let a team adrift, cause he was tired of it, then wants another Div1?
I hope I am missing something perhaps another name other than OP posted? But that Is terrible. 16 years avg 1.25 over .500  gawd
2/24/2013 5:58 PM
Look at it from a business standpoint though...would you want more or less revenue?

Not sure how he got to D1, but by WIS standards (say what you will) he "earned" the right to play D1 at some point, thus I say give him another go.  Almost all of you are looking at this from a disgruntled/defensive coach/peer point of view...if you were in his sit, you'd want to (and should) coach D1 too, and I think you've/he's got a very solid argument...as do I.

2/24/2013 6:16 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 2/24/2013 5:58:00 PM (view original):
Look at it from a business standpoint though...would you want more or less revenue?

Not sure how he got to D1, but by WIS standards (say what you will) he "earned" the right to play D1 at some point, thus I say give him another go.  Almost all of you are looking at this from a disgruntled/defensive coach/peer point of view...if you were in his sit, you'd want to (and should) coach D1 too, and I think you've/he's got a very solid argument...as do I.

Sounds like he earned the right to get to D1, then got his *** handed to him (causing a loss of interest) and ghost shipped it.

I don't see the issue with him having to earn his way back in.  I'd feel differently if he'd shown moderate success in D1 and now wanted back only to be shoved to D2 for inactivity reasons.  But I have no issue in this instance of him having to do a little work to get back... kick off the rust and prove himself, basically, before jumping back up to D1 and possibly repeating what happened before.

And you can't just take the business standpoint of "is it better to get money or not".  In that case, I want to coach an A+ baseline school or else I'm not going to play.  Do you want my money or not?
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2/24/2013 7:39 PM
Posted by ryrun on 2/24/2013 6:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by colonels19 on 2/24/2013 5:58:00 PM (view original):
Look at it from a business standpoint though...would you want more or less revenue?

Not sure how he got to D1, but by WIS standards (say what you will) he "earned" the right to play D1 at some point, thus I say give him another go.  Almost all of you are looking at this from a disgruntled/defensive coach/peer point of view...if you were in his sit, you'd want to (and should) coach D1 too, and I think you've/he's got a very solid argument...as do I.

Sounds like he earned the right to get to D1, then got his *** handed to him (causing a loss of interest) and ghost shipped it.

I don't see the issue with him having to earn his way back in.  I'd feel differently if he'd shown moderate success in D1 and now wanted back only to be shoved to D2 for inactivity reasons.  But I have no issue in this instance of him having to do a little work to get back... kick off the rust and prove himself, basically, before jumping back up to D1 and possibly repeating what happened before.

And you can't just take the business standpoint of "is it better to get money or not".  In that case, I want to coach an A+ baseline school or else I'm not going to play.  Do you want my money or not?
I certainly think one should be qualified for the "job(s)" they're seeking, so if you haven't earned the right to coach an A+ D1, then no, you shouldn't be able to coach them...we're talking about low-level D1 for guys who have already coached in D1...I'm in that boat as well and am mildly upset that I'm not able to land a D1 job in Tark.
2/24/2013 7:45 PM
Just because you were qualified before, if you did a poor job, you have to move backwards.  So if you barely qualified for a D-/D job, then do poorly (like ghost shipping will do), you'd obviously move backwards.  Most recent seasons weigh the most, so I'm guessing that ghost ship is holding him back.
2/24/2013 8:00 PM
Posted by taniajane on 2/24/2013 7:33:00 PM (view original):
I am not disgruntled could move to Div 1 anytime I wanted to.......a  .522 winning pct is nothing to whine about.....that is awful......that is part of the problem WIS will not fire people that are terrible......heck he is not only terrible he let a team go to trash when it was too overwhelming for him......
Have you looked at your own record?

Also - I looked in the conference of some of these D- teams I applied to.  They might have 1 or 2 coaches in them.  So please spare me the holier-than-thou rhetoric about hurting other coaches because it's not factual.  Figures hughesjr would be weighing in since he's so mad he spent years trying to figure out Gridiron Dynasty and still no success.

2/24/2013 8:14 PM
Posted by tcochran on 2/24/2013 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 2/24/2013 7:33:00 PM (view original):
I am not disgruntled could move to Div 1 anytime I wanted to.......a  .522 winning pct is nothing to whine about.....that is awful......that is part of the problem WIS will not fire people that are terrible......heck he is not only terrible he let a team go to trash when it was too overwhelming for him......
Have you looked at your own record?

Also - I looked in the conference of some of these D- teams I applied to.  They might have 1 or 2 coaches in them.  So please spare me the holier-than-thou rhetoric about hurting other coaches because it's not factual.  Figures hughesjr would be weighing in since he's so mad he spent years trying to figure out Gridiron Dynasty and still no success.

And those 1 or 2 coaches don't count?
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