3/29/2013 1:14 PM
Posted by killbatman on 3/29/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
As an Alabama fan, I would definitely trade Anthony Grant for Tubby right now.  He was fired for having more success than Grant has ever even sniffed.  All I keep hearing is "he's won 20 games 3 straight years"..well whoopty-friggin-do.  20 wins = NIT when the SEC is down.  We're paying him 1.8M and I'm supposed to believe he's making progress when I see the same terrible basketball on the court in year 4 as I did in year 1.

I was excited when I read Minnesota might be looking at Grant to replace Tubby.  Please take him.
i dont get why grant makes 1.8m a year...
3/29/2013 1:41 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 3/29/2013 1:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by killbatman on 3/29/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
As an Alabama fan, I would definitely trade Anthony Grant for Tubby right now.  He was fired for having more success than Grant has ever even sniffed.  All I keep hearing is "he's won 20 games 3 straight years"..well whoopty-friggin-do.  20 wins = NIT when the SEC is down.  We're paying him 1.8M and I'm supposed to believe he's making progress when I see the same terrible basketball on the court in year 4 as I did in year 1.

I was excited when I read Minnesota might be looking at Grant to replace Tubby.  Please take him.
i dont get why grant makes 1.8m a year...
The reason is because he beat Duke with VCU that one time like 5 years ago.

My favorite part is when he was hired, they asked him how he would describe his offense.  Direct quote here, "in a word: uptempo."  In 4 years, Bama has averaged about 250th in the country in tempo, getting slower every single year..something like 320th this year.  Apparently the uptempo setting is broken, he should send in a ticket.

3/29/2013 2:29 PM (edited)
Posted by killbatman on 3/29/2013 1:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 3/29/2013 1:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by killbatman on 3/29/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
As an Alabama fan, I would definitely trade Anthony Grant for Tubby right now.  He was fired for having more success than Grant has ever even sniffed.  All I keep hearing is "he's won 20 games 3 straight years"..well whoopty-friggin-do.  20 wins = NIT when the SEC is down.  We're paying him 1.8M and I'm supposed to believe he's making progress when I see the same terrible basketball on the court in year 4 as I did in year 1.

I was excited when I read Minnesota might be looking at Grant to replace Tubby.  Please take him.
i dont get why grant makes 1.8m a year...
The reason is because he beat Duke with VCU that one time like 5 years ago.

My favorite part is when he was hired, they asked him how he would describe his offense.  Direct quote here, "in a word: uptempo."  In 4 years, Bama has averaged about 250th in the country in tempo, getting slower every single year..something like 320th this year.  Apparently the uptempo setting is broken, he should send in a ticket.

but still, 1.8M!! thats a lot for any bama coach (nothing against bama). after his s16, CBG (the less famous CBG ;) was only at 2.0M/year. i mean, he wasnt worth it, obviously, but i think he was clearly the coach id expect to make more at the same school, and UK vs Bama, the bigger bball programs usually pay significantly more. i dont know, doesnt add up to me. i mean, i guess grant WAS a hot commodity, but i would have expected him to be picked up closer to 1.2M or so. i mean hell, tubby smith went to MN for 1.7, hes dropped some in status now, but at the time he was several leagues above Grant (and probably still is). i guess Bama has more money and that always plays in, they can afford to overpay by a half million a year no problem. if Grant ever makes this much again, id be surprised - but he could still turn things around.
3/29/2013 2:54 PM
Grant's salary

He was definitely *the* hot name at the time, but I completely agree with you.  Check out some of the names on that list making similar or less money (in 2009 anyway).  And here we are 4 years later with 2 good showings in the NIT and 1 NCAA appearance (lost 1st round).  For approximately 7.2M.  And people will label you irrational and/or racist if you call for him to be fired.

Bama definitely isn't a basketball blueblood, but if it were up to me, I would have fired Grant yesterday.  I'd write a big fat check (paid for by the football program) and go wave it in front of every elite coach who would let me in the door.  Someone wants to make $4M+ a year, if that's what it takes.  Bama can certainly afford that, and the basketball program could turn into Florida's very quickly if the administration would do what it takes instead of lowering expectations.
3/29/2013 3:10 PM (edited)
Posted by killbatman on 3/29/2013 2:54:00 PM (view original):
Grant's salary

He was definitely *the* hot name at the time, but I completely agree with you.  Check out some of the names on that list making similar or less money (in 2009 anyway).  And here we are 4 years later with 2 good showings in the NIT and 1 NCAA appearance (lost 1st round).  For approximately 7.2M.  And people will label you irrational and/or racist if you call for him to be fired.

Bama definitely isn't a basketball blueblood, but if it were up to me, I would have fired Grant yesterday.  I'd write a big fat check (paid for by the football program) and go wave it in front of every elite coach who would let me in the door.  Someone wants to make $4M+ a year, if that's what it takes.  Bama can certainly afford that, and the basketball program could turn into Florida's very quickly if the administration would do what it takes instead of lowering expectations.
wow, very interesting, hes not even close to the caliber of the coaches below him on that list! if he had them in the sweet 16 in the first few seasons or something, and they wanted to bump him above guys like jamie dixon, tubby, bo ryan... BOEHEIM  AND CALHOUN. i mean, maybe i could see it, maybe. 1.8M, thats big money, thats proven success money, not 3 years at VCU, a NIT, NT rd1, and NT rd2! alabama may as well have bumped that 1.8M up a bit and gotten someone really good. i guess they hoped grant was the next up and comer, not so bad to take a chance on him like that, but still. he sure did cash in on that 1 NT win!

i had forgotten he was likely going to replace billyd when he was the magic coach for those few hours, that is a pretty big deal, i guess its not that ridiculous after all. do they at least have good young talent or a good recruiting class or something? doesnt sound like they are getting much for their money :(
3/29/2013 3:09 PM (edited)
holy crap, this is a very interesting point from the article you linked:
More than 10 percent of the 343 Division I coaches collect guaranteed annual compensation of more than $1 million. Seven years ago, the sport had only two million-dollar coaches.

i cant believe there were only TWO coaches paid that well in the early 2000s, when now you have coaches at nearly 4 million, with a bunch over 2. thats a huge swing.
3/29/2013 3:26 PM
Posted by coach_billyg on 3/29/2013 3:09:00 PM (view original):
holy crap, this is a very interesting point from the article you linked:
More than 10 percent of the 343 Division I coaches collect guaranteed annual compensation of more than $1 million. Seven years ago, the sport had only two million-dollar coaches.

i cant believe there were only TWO coaches paid that well in the early 2000s, when now you have coaches at nearly 4 million, with a bunch over 2. thats a huge swing.
Yeah the salaries really have exploded, and football would probably show a similar picture..although it might've happened sooner there.  I think it's sustainable with all the TV money and other revenue the programs bring in.  Makes you wonder how high those numbers can go, though, doesn't it?

I'm ok with taking the "up-and-comer" approach to hiring, even overpaying for the hot name.  I was really excited when Bama hired Grant and expected big things.  But if you're doing that instead of hiring a proven commodity, you HAVE to recognize when that **** ain't working.  Which would be right now.

No, what will happen is he'll make the 2nd round NCAA or so next season (only 1 player expected to leave from a bubble team) and get another extension.  Then when his big recruiting class leaves, it'll be a couple more crap seasons.  But those will be ok, because "we're young", and it'll take several more seasons to finally figure out he can't coach.  Maybe he'll just magically get better.  That's my only hope.
3/29/2013 3:50 PM
Posted by coach_billyg on 3/29/2013 3:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by killbatman on 3/29/2013 2:54:00 PM (view original):
Grant's salary

He was definitely *the* hot name at the time, but I completely agree with you.  Check out some of the names on that list making similar or less money (in 2009 anyway).  And here we are 4 years later with 2 good showings in the NIT and 1 NCAA appearance (lost 1st round).  For approximately 7.2M.  And people will label you irrational and/or racist if you call for him to be fired.

Bama definitely isn't a basketball blueblood, but if it were up to me, I would have fired Grant yesterday.  I'd write a big fat check (paid for by the football program) and go wave it in front of every elite coach who would let me in the door.  Someone wants to make $4M+ a year, if that's what it takes.  Bama can certainly afford that, and the basketball program could turn into Florida's very quickly if the administration would do what it takes instead of lowering expectations.
wow, very interesting, hes not even close to the caliber of the coaches below him on that list! if he had them in the sweet 16 in the first few seasons or something, and they wanted to bump him above guys like jamie dixon, tubby, bo ryan... BOEHEIM  AND CALHOUN. i mean, maybe i could see it, maybe. 1.8M, thats big money, thats proven success money, not 3 years at VCU, a NIT, NT rd1, and NT rd2! alabama may as well have bumped that 1.8M up a bit and gotten someone really good. i guess they hoped grant was the next up and comer, not so bad to take a chance on him like that, but still. he sure did cash in on that 1 NT win!

i had forgotten he was likely going to replace billyd when he was the magic coach for those few hours, that is a pretty big deal, i guess its not that ridiculous after all. do they at least have good young talent or a good recruiting class or something? doesnt sound like they are getting much for their money :(
To answer that last bit you added, Bama did have 7 former top100, 4* and 5*, recruits on the roster this season (6 of which will return for 13-14).  The problem is only one of them was a big man, and he's the worst excuse for a 4* player I've ever seen.  Grant decided to leave 3 open scholarships heading into this season, so we were playing with only 10 players and 3 big men.  Then 2 players got hurt in-season, leaving 2 bigs and 8 total players.  Complete recruiting fail for a 4th year coach.

Of course the biggest problem is most of those top100 players haven't gotten any better in two years on campus.  Trevor Lacey was a big time 5* SG who picked Bama over Kansas and Kentucky, and he's actually gotten worse as a player in two years imo.

3/30/2013 5:06 AM
Tubby isn't the greatest coach and he definitely has flaws, but Minnesota was lucky to get him and for all the issues there, I think he did the best he could with what he had to work with. That being said, I NEVER would want tubby for a coach.

They were having winning seasons and getting to the NCAA. That is something fairly impressive for the gophers. Tubby's tenure there also happens to correspond with a pretty big upsurge in Big 10 competitiveness within the conference, something which isn't spoken about too much. That isn't an excuse for him not having a winning record in conference, but I think it is something that should be taken into account.

I do not think that Minnesota SHOULD be complacent and happy with mediocrity, but I do think the AD should be somewhat realistic about where he is and what kind of draw his school has for coaching talent. I'm not convinced he has that understanding yet, but I think he's going to come into it fairly soon. I think the best they can hope for is a young guy on the way up or an older guy with something to prove. It's likely that both will use Minnesota for a stepping stone to greener pastures.

I think Tubby gets a job before Minnesota gets a coach.

3/30/2013 10:24 AM (edited)
I have always liked Tubby.  I think he was too old fashioned for UK, and just not a good fit.  There are a number of programs where he is a good fit, and one of them was Minnesota.  He took over a team with a 9-22 record, and 1 20-win season and 1 NCAA berth in the previous 8 years since the academic fraud.  In fact, in it's greed to get to the top, the program was rocked with scandals in the 70's and 90's.  They were on probation 8 of the 22 seasons during that stretch and 8 of the previous 30 when Tubby got there.  What did he do: A 20-win first season; 5 20-win seasons in the 6 he was there; and 3 NCAA appearences in his 6 seasons.  Compared to the crappy program he took over, he did an outstanding job.  But that wasn't good enogh, and Minnesota still hasn't learned it's leasons about being patient and building a program the right way.  Who would want to coach there?
3/30/2013 11:52 AM
Yep, I think that's the proper perspective, 2 bounce.

Granted, some of the criticisms re: Tubby's shortcomings are probably warranted, if perhaps sometimes a bit overstated. But the reality is that we're talking about a fairly crappy BCS program with crappy facilities and a recent history of scandal. It's not an attractive job ... to paraphrase: Shaka Smart is not walking through that door. Brad Stephens is not walking through that door.

Again, I think the odds are fairly overwhelming that the program regresses under the next coach and some or all of the progress made under Tubby is lost.

3/30/2013 12:38 PM
I did see that Flip Saunders may be a leading candidate for the Gophers job.

Not sure he'd be interested but he is an alum, plus has 10+ years in the Twin Cities coaching Garnett and the T-Wolves.
3/30/2013 12:57 PM
Posted by 2bounce on 3/30/2013 10:24:00 AM (view original):
I have always liked Tubby.  I think he was too old fashioned for UK, and just not a good fit.  There are a number of programs where he is a good fit, and one of them was Minnesota.  He took over a team with a 9-22 record, and 1 20-win season and 1 NCAA berth in the previous 8 years since the academic fraud.  In fact, in it's greed to get to the top, the program was rocked with scandals in the 70's and 90's.  They were on probation 8 of the 22 seasons during that stretch and 8 of the previous 30 when Tubby got there.  What did he do: A 20-win first season; 5 20-win seasons in the 6 he was there; and 3 NCAA appearences in his 6 seasons.  Compared to the crappy program he took over, he did an outstanding job.  But that wasn't good enogh, and Minnesota still hasn't learned it's leasons about being patient and building a program the right way.  Who would want to coach there?
A lot of people, I think.

It's a great spot for a good coach. A huge campus with a fan base that wants to be loyal. No competition for in-state recruits, of which there are usually 2-4 top-100 guys. The Barn is a really fun place as a home court when the Gophers are good. 

Minnesota has three top-50 guys in the class of 2014. None of them seemingly had any interest in Minnesota with Tubby as coach. If they can get someone in who can convince even one of those guys to stay, it would be a nice reward for the program. 
3/30/2013 1:00 PM
Posted by girt25 on 3/30/2013 11:52:00 AM (view original):
Yep, I think that's the proper perspective, 2 bounce.

Granted, some of the criticisms re: Tubby's shortcomings are probably warranted, if perhaps sometimes a bit overstated. But the reality is that we're talking about a fairly crappy BCS program with crappy facilities and a recent history of scandal. It's not an attractive job ... to paraphrase: Shaka Smart is not walking through that door. Brad Stephens is not walking through that door.

Again, I think the odds are fairly overwhelming that the program regresses under the next coach and some or all of the progress made under Tubby is lost.

They aren't going to UCLA, either. Those guys clearly either have destination jobs or are really content where they are. I don't think that's an indictment of Minnesota's current situation. A good coach wouldn't have a terribly difficult time turning the current program (granted, Tubby got them to this point) into a consistent middle-of-the-pack Big Ten, perennial tournament team.
3/30/2013 1:00 PM
Posted by Iguana1 on 3/30/2013 12:38:00 PM (view original):
I did see that Flip Saunders may be a leading candidate for the Gophers job.

Not sure he'd be interested but he is an alum, plus has 10+ years in the Twin Cities coaching Garnett and the T-Wolves.
I wouldn't be surprised based on the rumblings I've heard.
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