All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > What does it take to get fired in HD?
4/8/2013 7:42 PM
Posted by hobobilly on 4/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
I think what could be helpful is if the AD issued a Season-Prior warning in regards to firing. Essentially saying "You need to do ____ _____ and _____ within the next season or else you're canned."  

Let's be honest, HD needs to make there money, and (if this thread is any indicator) nobody knows exactly what it takes to get fired. I know if I made it DI and got canned I'd be super PO'd (human consumer nature I suppose) especially so if I was given no prior warning. I'm sure I'm not alone there. I don't claim to know if the AD does in fact e-mail you if you're not meeting expectations, but I think if it was spelled out the season before then no user could be really infuriated if they didn't meet the requirements. I do agree with tarvolon's point, firings do need to happen more often, people want to reach their dream job, nothing wrong with that. 

I just think that if you fire people randomly it's a recipe for disaster (and forum posts complaining I really don't want to sift through, and after all what is this game about? Making Hobobilly happy.) I think the plan I'm suggesting is a decent middle ground (Jesus I sound like a politician already) just so people know what it is they can do to keep there job, and know the consequences if they do not.
you get warnings... you have a job status, the best is exceeding expectation, and normal is meeting expectations. if you start to struggle, you will drop to boosters complaining (i think), and after a few more crap seasons, in jeopardy. after a few more crap seasons, you get canned - each drop in status is accompanied by an AD email.

i dont think firings are random. if you presented arbitrary resumes, you'd get some disagreement in the details of when a guy gets fired, but over 95% of the time, the vast majority of long time d1 coaches would probably agree on the situation (about to get fired, already fired, doing fine, etc). mostly, because 95% of the time, nobody is getting fired ;) but coaches have a pretty good idea, combined with the explicit levels for job status, and the AD messages, are enough to cover that ground, IMO.

to me the issue is just how ridiculously hard it is to get fired from top jobs... im even fine with a PIT saving you after 6 straight no post seasons at south carolina or arizona state. if you take over a north carolina who hasnt made the post season in 6 season, id even almost be ok with it then - but the killer is how people can take good jobs, in decent standing, totally crap them up, and stay forever, assuming they can squeak out a PIT bid every few seasons.


4/9/2013 12:53 AM (edited)
Posted by coach_billyg on 4/8/2013 7:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hobobilly on 4/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
I think what could be helpful is if the AD issued a Season-Prior warning in regards to firing. Essentially saying "You need to do ____ _____ and _____ within the next season or else you're canned."  

Let's be honest, HD needs to make there money, and (if this thread is any indicator) nobody knows exactly what it takes to get fired. I know if I made it DI and got canned I'd be super PO'd (human consumer nature I suppose) especially so if I was given no prior warning. I'm sure I'm not alone there. I don't claim to know if the AD does in fact e-mail you if you're not meeting expectations, but I think if it was spelled out the season before then no user could be really infuriated if they didn't meet the requirements. I do agree with tarvolon's point, firings do need to happen more often, people want to reach their dream job, nothing wrong with that. 

I just think that if you fire people randomly it's a recipe for disaster (and forum posts complaining I really don't want to sift through, and after all what is this game about? Making Hobobilly happy.) I think the plan I'm suggesting is a decent middle ground (Jesus I sound like a politician already) just so people know what it is they can do to keep there job, and know the consequences if they do not.
you get warnings... you have a job status, the best is exceeding expectation, and normal is meeting expectations. if you start to struggle, you will drop to boosters complaining (i think), and after a few more crap seasons, in jeopardy. after a few more crap seasons, you get canned - each drop in status is accompanied by an AD email.

i dont think firings are random. if you presented arbitrary resumes, you'd get some disagreement in the details of when a guy gets fired, but over 95% of the time, the vast majority of long time d1 coaches would probably agree on the situation (about to get fired, already fired, doing fine, etc). mostly, because 95% of the time, nobody is getting fired ;) but coaches have a pretty good idea, combined with the explicit levels for job status, and the AD messages, are enough to cover that ground, IMO.

to me the issue is just how ridiculously hard it is to get fired from top jobs... im even fine with a PIT saving you after 6 straight no post seasons at south carolina or arizona state. if you take over a north carolina who hasnt made the post season in 6 season, id even almost be ok with it then - but the killer is how people can take good jobs, in decent standing, totally crap them up, and stay forever, assuming they can squeak out a PIT bid every few seasons.


This.  Firings are not even close to being random, blindsiding you, or coming out of the blue.  You get several e-mail indicators from your AD that you'd better step it up or it's time to start updating the old resume.  Too many e-mails, if you ask me, but you are given plenty of notice.

My personal opinion?  If the long time customer can't do the job, he's got to go.  As was said earlier, what about the long time customer whose path is blocked to the big schools by the guy who can't get the job done?  Does THAT coach not matter?  WIS doesn't want anyone to get ****** and quit (hence, no firings), but what about the long time coach who gets frustrated and quits because he's blocked from his dream job? 

If WIS has decided that there are to be no more firings, then it should be made known to everyone, not just those who inquire by ticket.  Post it on every Coaches Corner, in every conference, of every division, of every world.  That way at least everyone is aware of it.  As it is, it really feels quite underhanded to keep it a secret from everyone, only to be let known if someone takes the time to send in a ticket to CS.  And let's be realistic, doing it that way has about a 95% chance of you getting a canned response and referred to a Knowledge Base that is pathetically out of date.  Probably lose my posting rights by saying all that, but sometimes the truth hurts.


4/9/2013 9:40 AM
I think firings should be increased as well, and really like Tarvolon's idea about giving a free season or two to the person that gets fired. Even if they quit immediately after getting fired, they would have that credit lurking around, and would likely come back. I also think if you get fired, that you should still qualify for some jobs that are just a notch or two below what you got fired from. I know I am wanting to step into one of those top jobs at some point, but they are not open all that often.

4/10/2013 6:45 AM
Tarek, please come back and help with the HD business model vs game logic sowe can have a nice balance.
No offense untended for the employees but this HD firing logic sounds like it was made by corporate leadership.
4/10/2013 12:40 PM
Posted by gillispie on 4/8/2013 3:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by stinenavy on 4/8/2013 3:28:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for posting that jaisonline.

What a heaping crock of crap. So as long as WIS is getting their money you can keep being terrible no matter what job you're at. YAY!
yup. just one of the ****** things they will probably never fix because of the conflict of interests... and when the conflict is against their bottom line, they rarely do anything :O

i was really frustrated one year, waiting for UK to open up in tark - the rule, i think, was you CANNOT get fired in under 7 seasons, for any reason. well, after 6 seasons with no post season - he made the PIT. i was upset he didnt get fired, but held my tongue for a couple more seasons. after like, 2 more seasons of no post season, the dude still wasnt fired - and CS told me "the PIT saved him for a couple more seasons". right. because coaches at kentucky get saved by making the PIT :O

so if thats what it takes to get fired at an elite... 10 seasons with 1 PIT season... yeah. its broken. but strangely, its really no harder to get fired from any big 6 school than from a kentucky or north carolina. even mid majors arent much different, it seems. from top to bottom, the whole firing system makes NO sense (except that WIS doesnt want to fire a coach and lose money)
I think the logic behind their thinking is flawed. I will concede at the outset that there is some sense of a need to protect against a person who has put in the time and money to finally land a regular big six job which might be a complete overhaul and turnaround...to fire someone in that spot after 6-8 seasons would certainly **** off the coach and I think it would be understandable. Allowing for a long leash as they put it makes sense. But there needs to be a different standard at elite schools which is spelled out.  The reason being people play the game for years and wait for "dream jobs" to open up and some of them rarely if ever do. A coach taking that job would know (because WIS has made it known) that the lease is shorter and I would contend that most of the games top coaches (they are the ones usually inline for those jobs anyhow) would most likely be fine knowing that if they arent performing at a UNC after 10 seasons they are going to get canned. What took place at UNC in Naismith with the last coach was a joke and unfair to the other paying customers who wanted that job.
4/10/2013 12:42 PM
Posted by tarvolon on 4/8/2013 5:10:00 PM (view original):
So obviously they don't want people leaving the game because of getting fired, but does anyone leave the game because they just realize it's impossible to get their dream job because no one ever gets fired? I feel like that frustration may cause some losses that they don't know about. 

Honestly, they have a legitimate concern, but it's a legitimate that causes a ton of unrealism and a lot of frustration among coaches pining after high major D1 jobs. I think it's fixable. Or perhaps not easily fixable, able to be mitigated. Here's what I'd do if I were in their position (keep in mind I'm not a D1 coach, but I do have some modicum of intelligence. I think): 

1. Increase firings. Obviously, that's what people are asking for. I also think that if firings are increased, people would be less likely to quit the game after being fired. Some people might quit after a bad recruiting class sinks their NT hopes for a couple years, but most people just buckle down and try to rebuild. If a couple bad recruiting classes can get you fired (say, a firing after three straight PTs from a program you took over at A+), firings will be seen as more of a normal part of the game and a reason to buckle down and get yourself back at a BCS job, instead of a reason to quit forever. There will still be folks quitting, but I don't think the percentage would be as high as it is now. 

2. Change hiring logic. There are two main points to this.

2A. Make sure a coach who just got fired from a BCS job is qualified for roughly the level of job they left from. For instance, Billy Clyde was able to get a Big 12 job after being fired from Kentucky. If they have a decent place to go instead of having to retreat all the way back to Savannah State or Lamar, they're more inclined to stick with the game. 

2B. Make sure a coach who makes the Sweet Sixteen with a mid-major, or builds a D-prestige school into a perennial NT team,  etc., is qualified for at least low-level BCS jobs. If jobs are opening up more often, you need people to be able to get those jobs. These standards are fairly realistic and I think (although, like I said, I'm not in D1) will put enough people in the hiring pool. 

In addition to giving more people the opportunity to land big jobs, this also allows fired coaches the opportunity to land big jobs again. if they lose a job at Georgia Tech, they don't have to despair ever making the ACC again, because there will be more turnover and they'll be qualified again with a few strong seasons at a mid-major. This, I suspect, will seriously decrease quitting after firings. 

3. Parachute payments. In real life, contracts come with buyouts. In HD, there's an obvious parallel that would seriously disincentivize quitting. Give fired coaches two seasons free (perhaps even free and not transferable to another world). Yeah, it costs HD something, but if it keeps fired coaches playing the game and keeps other people interested (because they have a chance at big-time jobs), they'll come out ahead in the long-run. I can't see a coach taking two free seasons, getting his recruits in place over a period of 2-3 months, and then quitting because he had been fired several weeks earlier. 

4. Monitor your revenue increase/decrease compared to current patterns. if they changes aren't working, you can always go back to the "never fire" logic. But I think there's a pretty good chance this would help, not hurt, the game if done correctly. 

Am I a dumbass, or are these actually realistic and workable solutions? (not saying solutions that will be enacted, just saying could in principle and could make the game better without costing HD)
+1
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