All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Recruiting-Do order of actions matter?
4/11/2013 8:47 AM
Here's what happened.  Early in recruiting, I had someone consider me for the $110 special.  The cycle before signings, I decided this guy would be better off with a R/S year.  I did things in the following order (all the same cycle):

Inform of R/S, CV, HV, Uninform of R/S.  He rejected the CV and HV and at signings wasn't considering anyone.  (As a disclaimer, I was rushing things while at work and wasn't even thinking order mattered, so I goofed up.  It's on me.)  Next cycle I re-sent the CV and HV and wound up in a battle I couldn't win.  

Like I said-I didn't think order mattered, but this may imply it does.  After I informed of R/S, he was probably mad, thus rejecting the HV and CV.  Thoughts?
4/11/2013 9:05 AM
Also, the intent was to *try* and R/S him once I signed him, not actually get him to take the R/S season during recruiting.  That may not have come across very well in my initial post.
4/11/2013 9:15 AM
If he rejected the RS, he could have been angry and that's why he rejected the CV and HV.

Be careful - if you uninform of RS and leave things that way, he will NEVER accept the RS and will give you a message indicating you told him he wouldn't get an RS. Once you have uninformed of RS, the ONLY way to get them to take the RS is to re-inform them, and only then if they accept the re-inform.

4/11/2013 10:38 AM
I'm also not sure if order matters, but I generally go with scouting evals so they don't have an option to reject the effort.
4/11/2013 11:25 AM
Yeah, use scouting trips to get info AND make the kid more receptive, THEN go after him with HV or CV.
4/11/2013 2:28 PM
Posted by darnoc29099 on 4/11/2013 8:47:00 AM (view original):
Here's what happened.  Early in recruiting, I had someone consider me for the $110 special.  The cycle before signings, I decided this guy would be better off with a R/S year.  I did things in the following order (all the same cycle):

Inform of R/S, CV, HV, Uninform of R/S.  He rejected the CV and HV and at signings wasn't considering anyone.  (As a disclaimer, I was rushing things while at work and wasn't even thinking order mattered, so I goofed up.  It's on me.)  Next cycle I re-sent the CV and HV and wound up in a battle I couldn't win.  

Like I said-I didn't think order mattered, but this may imply it does.  After I informed of R/S, he was probably mad, thus rejecting the HV and CV.  Thoughts?
any time you are pulling starts/minutes, the guy is going to naturally drop to not considering you, at which points, HVs and CVs can be rejected. if possible, send those a cycle earlier - and THEN fix the promises. 
4/11/2013 2:33 PM
I think he's talking about the order within the same cycle and for some crazy reason, I think that it DOES matter.

I've noticed that I'm more likely to get a successful result with a HV or CV if I do a ST first.  If I do the HV or CV and then ST last, it doesn't seem to work as well.
4/11/2013 2:56 PM
Posted by toysboys on 4/11/2013 2:33:00 PM (view original):
I think he's talking about the order within the same cycle and for some crazy reason, I think that it DOES matter.

I've noticed that I'm more likely to get a successful result with a HV or CV if I do a ST first.  If I do the HV or CV and then ST last, it doesn't seem to work as well.
I agree with this.  I've always thought the order mattered.

I think if the OP had sent the visits before informing of RS..or had informed of non-RS before sending the visits..either way would've worked out better than what he did.

And as someone already pointed out, it's "inform of non-RS", not "un-inform of RS"..those are 2 very different things.  They 100% won't take a RS without a WE drop if you've told them during recruiting that they're not RSing.
4/11/2013 3:21 PM
I also believe order does matter but considering how little effort you put into him before informing of RS, he probably still would have stopped considering you. I have noticed a link between the recruiting history and responses I have received from recruits. Also if I send 5 seperate HV's I will get 5 emails vs. sending 5 at once and getting one email from the recruit. So any action in between those 5 seperate HV's would register before the final HV or would register at whatever placement they have in the recruiting history.
4/11/2013 3:58 PM
i think order matters on visits but redshirts and promises are processed specially, for some reason. like, promises and redshirts are always processed FIRST, no matter when you do them. otherwise you'd think you could spend a bunch and get a promise in at the end - but you cant. you'd also think you could spend a bunch and guaranteed get a redshirt in at the end (one you couldnt do at the beginning) - but you cant. 

best bet, do it a cycle early! i prefer to adjust my $110 specials around 2am or so, morning of signing day
4/11/2013 4:07 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/11/2013 3:59:00 PM (view original):
i think order matters on visits but redshirts and promises are processed specially, for some reason. like, promises and redshirts are always processed FIRST, no matter when you do them. otherwise you'd think you could spend a bunch and get a promise in at the end - but you cant. you'd also think you could spend a bunch and guaranteed get a redshirt in at the end (one you couldnt do at the beginning) - but you cant. 

best bet, do it a cycle early! i prefer to adjust my $110 specials around 2am or so, morning of signing day
As someone else alluded to, I was referring to doing everything in the same cycle.  

The reason I'm now inclined to think order matters regarding promises is at the 4pm cycle I informed of R/S, then sent a CV and a HV (which he rejected), THEN I informed of non R/S.  The next cycle (while the recruit was under the new premise he wouldn't get R/S'ed) I re-sent the CV and HV and he was considering me again.  The only thing that changed between when he rejected the original CV and HV to when he eventually accepted them was when he was informed I wouldn't R/S him.  

And, to those who pointed it out, thanks for letting me know if you inform of non R/S during recruiting and then try and R/S it's definitely going to result in a WE hit...did not realize that before.
4/11/2013 5:16 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/11/2013 3:59:00 PM (view original):
i think order matters on visits but redshirts and promises are processed specially, for some reason. like, promises and redshirts are always processed FIRST, no matter when you do them. otherwise you'd think you could spend a bunch and get a promise in at the end - but you cant. you'd also think you could spend a bunch and guaranteed get a redshirt in at the end (one you couldnt do at the beginning) - but you cant. 

best bet, do it a cycle early! i prefer to adjust my $110 specials around 2am or so, morning of signing day
"you'd think you could spend a bunch and get a promise in at the end - but you cant. you'd also think you could spend a bunch and guaranteed get a redshirt in at the end (one you couldnt do at the beginning) - but you cant. "

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.  If a kid is considering just me, are you saying if in the same cycle I first inform of r/s and then followw up with 4 HVs to encourage him to accept it that this won't work?  That I have to reverse the order within the same cycle?  Because I'm pretty sure this is what I do when I want him to know upfront that he'll be R/S during the season and I haven't had a problem.

Also, are you saying that to clear the promised start from a $110 special that I can't do (within the same cycle) the following actions in the order listed and have him still considering me the very next cycle?:
1. Inform of R/S
2. Inform of non R/S
3. Send 4 HVs

I am pretty sure I've done this before w/o a problem.

And just to be clear. when you guys say to do your actions the cycle before, all you do then  is Inform of R/S and the Inform of non-R/S all within the same cycle (and  no other actions) but after you've sent some HV/CVs in the previous cycle?
4/11/2013 9:02 PM (edited)
Posted by darnoc29099 on 4/11/2013 4:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/11/2013 3:59:00 PM (view original):
i think order matters on visits but redshirts and promises are processed specially, for some reason. like, promises and redshirts are always processed FIRST, no matter when you do them. otherwise you'd think you could spend a bunch and get a promise in at the end - but you cant. you'd also think you could spend a bunch and guaranteed get a redshirt in at the end (one you couldnt do at the beginning) - but you cant. 

best bet, do it a cycle early! i prefer to adjust my $110 specials around 2am or so, morning of signing day
As someone else alluded to, I was referring to doing everything in the same cycle.  

The reason I'm now inclined to think order matters regarding promises is at the 4pm cycle I informed of R/S, then sent a CV and a HV (which he rejected), THEN I informed of non R/S.  The next cycle (while the recruit was under the new premise he wouldn't get R/S'ed) I re-sent the CV and HV and he was considering me again.  The only thing that changed between when he rejected the original CV and HV to when he eventually accepted them was when he was informed I wouldn't R/S him.  

And, to those who pointed it out, thanks for letting me know if you inform of non R/S during recruiting and then try and R/S it's definitely going to result in a WE hit...did not realize that before.
i know what you were saying, in the same cycle. what i was doing was explaining how it works (posted earlier as coach_billyg but wasnt as detailed as i like), and the logical conclusion... which is to always try to do them in separate cycles. i dont think same cycle order matters with respect to promises, which is precisely why i make that recommendation, if you want to be safe - split em up.

sorry if that was unclear, was trying to go a step beyond simply answering the yes or no question, but i might not have made the answer to the yes or no question clear enough. and im not even sure its a yes or no, im not saying order doesnt matter as much as, there is no guarantee there.
4/11/2013 8:59 PM
Posted by jdno on 4/11/2013 5:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 4/11/2013 3:59:00 PM (view original):
i think order matters on visits but redshirts and promises are processed specially, for some reason. like, promises and redshirts are always processed FIRST, no matter when you do them. otherwise you'd think you could spend a bunch and get a promise in at the end - but you cant. you'd also think you could spend a bunch and guaranteed get a redshirt in at the end (one you couldnt do at the beginning) - but you cant. 

best bet, do it a cycle early! i prefer to adjust my $110 specials around 2am or so, morning of signing day
"you'd think you could spend a bunch and get a promise in at the end - but you cant. you'd also think you could spend a bunch and guaranteed get a redshirt in at the end (one you couldnt do at the beginning) - but you cant. "

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.  If a kid is considering just me, are you saying if in the same cycle I first inform of r/s and then followw up with 4 HVs to encourage him to accept it that this won't work?  That I have to reverse the order within the same cycle?  Because I'm pretty sure this is what I do when I want him to know upfront that he'll be R/S during the season and I haven't had a problem.

Also, are you saying that to clear the promised start from a $110 special that I can't do (within the same cycle) the following actions in the order listed and have him still considering me the very next cycle?:
1. Inform of R/S
2. Inform of non R/S
3. Send 4 HVs

I am pretty sure I've done this before w/o a problem.

And just to be clear. when you guys say to do your actions the cycle before, all you do then  is Inform of R/S and the Inform of non-R/S all within the same cycle (and  no other actions) but after you've sent some HV/CVs in the previous cycle?
what im saying is this. suppose a recruit is considering another school alone. starts will automatically, guaranteed get rejected. now, if order mattered - couldnt you send like 10 CVs, knock the other guy off, and your start would get accepted? what im saying is, it doesnt. same for minutes - if you are considered with someone else, significantly behind, minutes will get rejected. doesnt matter if you send 100K of visits before that promise or not, it holds true. so, i DO think order comes into play for most things - but not promises. 

if a kid is considering you, and you redshirt with 4 HVs in the same cycle, you are usually going to be fine. usually. but not always, you can actually get him to reject those home visits on you and not consider you. i dont think the order matters - others are saying, do the 4 HVs first, and you are guaranteed safe. i dont think it makes any difference at all, if you do the 4 HV then redshirt, or visa versa, or any other combination of those 5 actions. 

in your second example, you CAN do that set of actions and have it work. there is just no guarantee. usually you'll be safe, but sometimes you'll end up getting your visits rejected (doing all 4 at once instead of 1 by 1 dramatically increases these odds). 

just to be clear - that is according to my theory on how it works, im not 100% sure about all of it. things may have changed and there may be some nuances between your examples and my experience. im 100% positive that a few years ago, if you had a 110 special out, and did a few visits with a redshirt/no redshirt, you could get dropped from consideration. im also 100% positive that a few years ago, if you had a guy considering you, no promises - and you then did a redshirt + visits - you could get dropped from consideration. 
4/11/2013 10:32 PM
thx for the clarification cbg.  I do send the HVs 1 at a time for just that reason (i.e. not wanting them to get rejected entirely).
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