All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > D1 recruiting with C- prestige
4/12/2013 5:11 PM
Anyone know how high of a ranking you can go for without it being a backup option, and also how high before a player is "unrecruitable"? Trying to determine if I should start out doing some scouting trips in case they are a backup, but don't want to waste money of scouting trips if they can't be recruited anyway.

4/13/2013 11:41 AM
Answer - I had some players in the teens list me as a backup option. Had some backup messages in the 20s, 30s and even around 40. Had some recritable as low as the mid 20s.
4/13/2013 12:25 PM
I have found C- to be the absolute worst spot for recruiting.  Maybe it was just me, but that seemed like the point where I wanted to move up to better recruits but would get slaughtered in recruiting battles, and I'd end up with the same type of player I was targeting at D.  Once you hit C- you need to coach your way to a C+.  And that can be extremely difficult in a D1 conference that is competitive.  Also, you mentioned rankings.  You shouldn't just recruit based on rankings.  There can be guys who are in the top 20 but clearly are not worth taking over guys with lower rankings, based on potential.  just my opinion
4/13/2013 10:51 PM
I think with a C- or a D+ ... it's better to wait until signings start. If you're targeting anything worthwhile, C's or C+ will too and the ability to blow money on guys that are ripe for better schools is there. Patience is absolutely key ... that and being able to wait out guys that are backups for the B-, B, B+ schools to become available.

4/14/2013 11:52 AM
If under 5 scholarships I don't spend a dime other then FSS for the first 24-36 hours of recruiting.
4/15/2013 10:10 AM
I just recruited this guy who was ranked #37 and I was/am a C prestige.
4/15/2013 12:49 PM
Posted by sull21858 on 4/14/2013 11:52:00 AM (view original):
If under 5 scholarships I don't spend a dime other then FSS for the first 24-36 hours of recruiting.
i TOTALLY disagree with this. with mid majors, sure, you cant battle for a guy and win, if a BCS school wants them. but still, getting your name on a guy is some deterrent. so why not get on cheap? i dont suggest getting in major battles early - thats crazy. but going for some recruits at the top of your range (by quality, not ranking) makes total sense. if you dont get them, what do you lose? a grand or two? big deal - if you get them, they can change a program.

the reality of mid major recruiting is, if you have say 4 openings and 60K, there are still a ton of players you cant get. setting aside 20-30K for a battle, versus 35-45, isnt going to make much difference. with mid majors, if you having a clear pecking order on your prospects - you are most likely either at the top of the range, where you arent going to get *any* of those guys, or, you simply havent looked and found enough guys. theres a casual gradient. so first, id challenge that its rare there is even a 40k battle worth fighting. second, id argue there are very few battles you even *could* win for 40k, that you'd lose for 25K. its just not the normal case. can it happen? yes, but playing for that case makes no sense to me.

the trick to mid major recruiting is scouting far and wide, and also, deep. if you have that 60K and spend less than 15K or so on FSS and evals, you are probably not recruiting very well. now of course there are many ways to win, but FSS'ing a lot of states, and further scouting many players, to me is the clear winning strategy. there just arent enough local recruits who will slip through the cracks (ESPECIALLY after a day or two). but far and wide, a bunch of guys will slip through. if you find the guard with high/high spd, per, bh, well that could really take a guy that isn't high on any big school's radar and make him a gem. big schools cant afford for a 50 ath, 60 spd, per, bh, pass type guy to improve, even if hes got highs in all 5 of those. and if those are low high, that guy will grow to suck, anyway. but the right high/highs, and hes putting up 20 ppg for you as a junior.

so, its all about finding the gems ASAP, and getting on them early - they are usually not attractive enough at a glance to be worth fighting for. there are a ton of guys who look roughly as good at that level, but the sub potentials make all the difference in the world. you can get quality BCS players at a mid majors if you work it, even with D prestige. i built a team with half a budget (used the other half for recruiting experimentation), which goes to show how little money matters - it was like a d+ school, and in the 4th season, with all the half budget recruits, we pulled an elite 8, and the sim made the NT the next year, and i think was doing pretty good the following year, too. we had like 3 bigs who most big 6 schools would look at and be happy to have. hell, i had a south carolina team about to win a championship, and i wished i could take one or two of those bigs over to that team. those guys werent good as freshman, but as juniors and seniors, they were awesome! of course, that elite 8 run was some major luck, but for an experimental only team, with half a budget, to pull high end big 6 bigs - i think it says a lot about the effectiveness of scouting far and wide, and then using lots of evals, early as possible.
4/15/2013 2:01 PM
While at TX southern i had a very simple strategy. Lots of Redshirts, take the ineligibles cheap, and potential over current ratings. I'd rather take a guy with a 550 overall rating with high potentials for 5k than the 610 guys with average potentials for 25k. The cheaper guy will redshirt, and he'll be better as a junior. 

As for early or late, I use to try to do a little of both. Find the big fish early (the big potential guys), then wait to see who screws themselves with battles to try and get the others later.

I'm going to try and do it at Denver again. We'll see. 
4/15/2013 2:29 PM
Posted by gillispie on 4/15/2013 12:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by sull21858 on 4/14/2013 11:52:00 AM (view original):
If under 5 scholarships I don't spend a dime other then FSS for the first 24-36 hours of recruiting.
i TOTALLY disagree with this. with mid majors, sure, you cant battle for a guy and win, if a BCS school wants them. but still, getting your name on a guy is some deterrent. so why not get on cheap? i dont suggest getting in major battles early - thats crazy. but going for some recruits at the top of your range (by quality, not ranking) makes total sense. if you dont get them, what do you lose? a grand or two? big deal - if you get them, they can change a program.

the reality of mid major recruiting is, if you have say 4 openings and 60K, there are still a ton of players you cant get. setting aside 20-30K for a battle, versus 35-45, isnt going to make much difference. with mid majors, if you having a clear pecking order on your prospects - you are most likely either at the top of the range, where you arent going to get *any* of those guys, or, you simply havent looked and found enough guys. theres a casual gradient. so first, id challenge that its rare there is even a 40k battle worth fighting. second, id argue there are very few battles you even *could* win for 40k, that you'd lose for 25K. its just not the normal case. can it happen? yes, but playing for that case makes no sense to me.

the trick to mid major recruiting is scouting far and wide, and also, deep. if you have that 60K and spend less than 15K or so on FSS and evals, you are probably not recruiting very well. now of course there are many ways to win, but FSS'ing a lot of states, and further scouting many players, to me is the clear winning strategy. there just arent enough local recruits who will slip through the cracks (ESPECIALLY after a day or two). but far and wide, a bunch of guys will slip through. if you find the guard with high/high spd, per, bh, well that could really take a guy that isn't high on any big school's radar and make him a gem. big schools cant afford for a 50 ath, 60 spd, per, bh, pass type guy to improve, even if hes got highs in all 5 of those. and if those are low high, that guy will grow to suck, anyway. but the right high/highs, and hes putting up 20 ppg for you as a junior.

so, its all about finding the gems ASAP, and getting on them early - they are usually not attractive enough at a glance to be worth fighting for. there are a ton of guys who look roughly as good at that level, but the sub potentials make all the difference in the world. you can get quality BCS players at a mid majors if you work it, even with D prestige. i built a team with half a budget (used the other half for recruiting experimentation), which goes to show how little money matters - it was like a d+ school, and in the 4th season, with all the half budget recruits, we pulled an elite 8, and the sim made the NT the next year, and i think was doing pretty good the following year, too. we had like 3 bigs who most big 6 schools would look at and be happy to have. hell, i had a south carolina team about to win a championship, and i wished i could take one or two of those bigs over to that team. those guys werent good as freshman, but as juniors and seniors, they were awesome! of course, that elite 8 run was some major luck, but for an experimental only team, with half a budget, to pull high end big 6 bigs - i think it says a lot about the effectiveness of scouting far and wide, and then using lots of evals, early as possible.
recruiting DEEP is definitely a requirement. I haven't spent too many seasons at low D1 until recently, where I made the following observation:

raising the standard of recruit i wanted to get when I got to C, C+ did absolutely nothing to improve the quality of players i got. i allowed myself to go 'shallow' and get players with higher starting ratings and similar expected 'final' ratings (compared to what i looked for a D, D+). this ended up hurting me because the players that started with lower ratings intrinsically have a way-higher ceiling because the only way they get to that expected 'final' rating is with high or high-high potential, which has no hard cap to it.

so basically, if you have two recruits that are exactly the same, one a two-star recruit with 60 ath and 'normal' potential, and one a zero-start recruit with 40 ath and 'high-high' potential...you go after the no-star 40-ath recruit. a projected ath of 70-100 (admittedly more likely to be around 70, but 70-100 nonetheless) is more desirable than a 65-80 projected ath for a mid-major.
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