All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Multiple teams in one world
4/17/2013 12:28 PM
Posted by hackerhog on 4/17/2013 11:36:00 AM (view original):
Posted by llamanunts on 4/17/2013 11:25:00 AM (view original):
Well, in one case the guy is "sharing" it with himself - a non-competitor.  It's a single guy just plain cheating, assuming he uses any info between teams.  In the other, it's three guys who presumably are in competition with each other.  That's the kind of what-if (har har) you kind of have to tolerate.  My brother and I both play.  My two oldest friends play.  However, we're not sharing.  We want to kick each other's *****.
I know. I'm not arguing for or against this issue. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

the person that used FREEHD to created multiple accounts  is what caused the issue discussed in the other thread.

When you think about it, this is somewhat like the gun control argument.

Person = Shooter
Accounts = AR-15
FREEHD = bullets

Obviously my stance is it's the shooter and not the AR-15 or bullets.
there is a reason freeHD has been repealed so many times, its because it causes so much bullshit and is predominantly used by existing users in improper ways. for a while d3 was "full" - of ghost shipped teams! i tend to agree, its the people. but the point is... if one would consider banning multiple accounts while allowing freeHD, they'd have to be crazy.
4/17/2013 12:28 PM
Appreciate you jumping on this, Seble.
4/17/2013 12:31 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/17/2013 10:20:00 AM (view original):
Why would you want a second team in the same world?  Why wouldn't you just take a team in  a different world.   I am not trying to be a jerk, I just don't see a valid reason to have a 2nd team.
I could see someone building up a quality D3 program, wanting to move up, but not wanting to give up on that squad.  So they jump across the country to a D2 program and continue things as is with an alias on the D3 squad.  
4/17/2013 12:35 PM (edited)
Posted by udm_mike on 4/17/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Appreciate you jumping on this, Seble.
my question is this. if the issue came down to 2 BRAND NEW accounts by THE SAME USER being used to attack one team and one team alone... what the hell is the problem? remove those 2 teams, ban the coach who created them, and move on.

if there is more to that story, than the CS ticket revealed, then i think it would be worthwhile to make that public. the reality is as that story looks, it looks like a no-brainer, without question, abuse of new teams (is freeHD really back?). and to react to push back on a poor decision made with this suggestion - which affects a totally different group of people and also does not solve the problem - seems like a total cop out to me. 

now, i can sympathize, dealing with cheating and these kinds of issues, it has to suck. it really does. but this is an overreaction that simply does not solve the problem of abuse and cheating. its just something that has to be dealt with, theres really no way around it. you can never make this game cheat-proof.

4/17/2013 12:45 PM (edited)
The crux is that there will always be a way for people to cheat and maliciously harm a fellow coach, no matter if multiple teams are eliminated or not.  Do some coaches with multiple teams cheat?  I'm sure it happens, as dshook most recently found out.  Do some family membes collude/cheat/share recruiting info?  We all know it inevitably happens, but we rely on people's judgments and sense of fair play in all cases.  Multiple teams.  Friends.  Family Members.  Roommates.  Whatever

I tell you one thing, though.  If seble is saying most of his time is spent handling these issues and then eliminates multiple teams altogether, I sure as $*!# better see him WAY WAY more active in HD than he has been over the past year.  So his reputation is on the line if he makes this move, esp. since revenue from HD will be less than they are now and the downward trend in participation and revenue will take another leg down.
4/17/2013 12:39 PM
Posted by alblack56 on 4/17/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I've had multiple teams in a world, all of  them for more than 50 seasons.  At the time I bought them, there was no FSS and no potential. I don't relish being forced to give up teams that I've nurtured since 2004.  I'd seriously consider quitting the game entirely if it comes to pass.
WIS could turn off the HD servers tomorrow if they wanted to, and they change the rules of the game through updates sporadically. The "I'm 50 seasons in" argument is sympathetic, but not really compelling.
4/17/2013 12:44 PM
The crux is that there will always be a way for people to cheat and maliciously harm a fellow coach, no matter if multiple teams are eliminated or not.
This drifts kinda close to: "Rules?  Why have 'em?  Only honest people follow them."
4/17/2013 12:48 PM
Yeah, since cheaters are gonna cheat why not just make it easy for them?
4/17/2013 12:56 PM
Posted by kcsundevil on 4/17/2013 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by alblack56 on 4/17/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I've had multiple teams in a world, all of  them for more than 50 seasons.  At the time I bought them, there was no FSS and no potential. I don't relish being forced to give up teams that I've nurtured since 2004.  I'd seriously consider quitting the game entirely if it comes to pass.
WIS could turn off the HD servers tomorrow if they wanted to, and they change the rules of the game through updates sporadically. The "I'm 50 seasons in" argument is sympathetic, but not really compelling.

the problem is the guys with teams for 50 seasons are long standing members and are pretty important parts of the community. heres a really quick list of a few long time coaches who have or had multiple teams in a world... some dont have them anymore, i think, but this rule has been debated over the years, and all these guys have had mutiple teams when multiple teams were being debated...
coach_billyg/gillispie
alblack
emy/dcy
girt/daalter
oldresorter/ryan75
lostmyth
acn/oldwarrior

hell, half the people on chapelhillne's championship list have multiple IDs (if not more). half the coaches in my conferences have multiple IDs. wiping those veteran teams out might sound good for a minute, it would at least get easier to win championships! and im sure a few of the multiple team guys are cheating and so youd catch a few cheaters, too - just like you would wiping out ANY segment of this game's population. but i honestly dont think the game can survive wiping out so many teams from so many of the stable long term members of the community. 

theres also a pretty valid reason people get grandfathered in to rule/law changes in so many other settings...

4/17/2013 12:58 PM
Thanks for all the feedback - there are good arguments on both sides, that's why this is such a tough issue to solve.  There are probably too many downsides to a change for anything to happen now. 

Another option we've discussed (but I forgot to include) is to keep the current distance restriction, but to allow the same account multiple times in a world.  Then at least there would be transparency in which teams are owned by which person, and we'd then be able to build in some preventative measures, such as limiting available jobs based on the distance restriction.  This is somewhat problematic logistically though, because the game was built on the assumption that an account could have just one team per world.

Anyway, I do appreciate all the feedback.  The forum polls are a nice tool for this kind of thing, so I'll try to use it from time to time.


4/17/2013 12:58 PM
Posted by kcsundevil on 4/17/2013 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by alblack56 on 4/17/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
I've had multiple teams in a world, all of  them for more than 50 seasons.  At the time I bought them, there was no FSS and no potential. I don't relish being forced to give up teams that I've nurtured since 2004.  I'd seriously consider quitting the game entirely if it comes to pass.
WIS could turn off the HD servers tomorrow if they wanted to, and they change the rules of the game through updates sporadically. The "I'm 50 seasons in" argument is sympathetic, but not really compelling.
but why would you want to alienate a guy like alblack, who helps so many newbies, runs dynasty lists, and I seriously doubt anyone has, for 1 second doubted his integrity or thought he cheated with multiple teams. dude has the #1 and #3 most wins in d3 Naismith, doesn't need to cheat. 
4/17/2013 12:59 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/17/2013 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, since cheaters are gonna cheat why not just make it easy for them?
and while we're at it let's make a mountain out of a molehill following a very isolated and public incident
4/17/2013 1:01 PM
 
Another option we've discussed (but I forgot to include) is to keep the current distance restriction, but to allow the same account multiple times in a world.  Then at least there would be transparency in which teams are owned by which person, and we'd then be able to build in some preventative measures, such as limiting available jobs based on the distance restriction. 


I would have voted for this.

?
4/17/2013 1:03 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/17/2013 11:31:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 11:12:00 AM (view original):
Consider the factor that being a successful recruiter takes hard work and a fair  amount of time.  If you have 2 teams in the same world as opposed to 2 teams in different worlds, the amount of time needed is considerably less.  That's a significant factor that shouldn't be overlooked. 
I don't mean to be a jerk (but I more or less can't stop it, I am from NJ) but that seems like an unfair advantage.   If it's easier (takes less time) to recruit because you have two teams it seems kinda silly to allow it.  
its about not having the disruption to life that is recruiting multiple times a month. its CERTAINLY easier to just have 1 team, for recruiting purposes, than many - so should having just 1 team be banned?

its not really that it takes less time, but that it screws life up less. i have to restrict my activities 2 days a month - the day recruiting starts, and signings. i cant triple that by taking my 3 teams and putting them in different worlds. back when i was in college, had no wife or kids, and no full time job - that was different. but today, the only way i can do it is if i half *** my non-tark teams - which i do - and im ok with that, at this late stage of my career. in earlier days, it would have made me crazy, and it did, so i dropped all non tark teams. 

so. the question is really not, do you want a coach to have 2 teams in a world, or 2 teams in different worlds? - but rather, do you want a coach, given the limited population of HD, to have 1 team, or to have multiple teams in the same world?
4/17/2013 1:06 PM
Posted by jdno on 4/17/2013 12:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/17/2013 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, since cheaters are gonna cheat why not just make it easy for them?
and while we're at it let's make a mountain out of a molehill following a very isolated and public incident
Just because you don't cheat doesn't mean it doesn't happen.    It's only a mole hill to you because you are the guy that's going to be affected.

More than once in DII Tark, I've  see some D3 school on a player from California with all High potentials.   Makes me wonder......
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