All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Multiple teams in one world
4/17/2013 3:56 PM
FSS seems to be one of the biggest ways coaches with multiple usernames in the same world can "cheat". I wasn't involved with Whatifsports before, when FSS wasn't around. Therefore, I only recruit using FSS, seems like the smartest thing to do anyways unless you have a hunch on someone with high core ratings to begin with. I'm not sure how many coaches out there still recruit without using FSS but one way to allow 1 coach to have multiple teams in the same world and avoid cheating with FSS is to implement a system where you can only offer a scholarship if you scouted that state using FSS.  Granted there will most likely be a ton of opposition to this proposal because I'm sure a lot of coaches scout players that aren't under the states they scouted. Also, I realize that if the coach really wanted to cheat they could scout with one team and if they saw players they liked they would just scout that state with their other team. However, that still eats up a chunk of cash. I might just be completely off with this proposal but felt the need to put it out there since everyone else is offering ideas. 
4/17/2013 4:16 PM (edited)
Posted by brianxavier on 4/17/2013 2:03:00 PM (view original):
I haven't read all the posts --- but I don't understand how one can not be influenced by having mutiple teams in one world.

Obviously it's all about the scouting.  Even if I have my teams scout the same states, there is still the knowledge gained by knowing which states to NOT scout for the other team in that world.  There is the advantage of seeing more states scouted, and knowing which states to avoid with each school.  

For example:  let's say I have a team in Florida (D3 school) and California (D1 school).  California school scouts the entire western side of the county.  The Florida schools scouts the Southwest.  Florida school sees a 'gem' in West (which he didn't scout).  Decides to scout West state of said 'gem' player.  He says - 'hey it's fair - I scouted that state with both teams!"

The only way I see it working is that each school limits recruiting to a specific area (that don't overlap) and before recruiting starts determine what states will be alloted to each school.  That way the knowledge gained as soon as the "blind is broken" cannot influence the actions of the other school.



After reading the entire thread, these were my main thoughts as well.

No multiple accounts, but allowing a single user to have a team in each division is an OK idea (definitally at least an improvement).  You still run into the same problems with scouting.  Is 10 worlds, thus 10 teams not enough?

Some of the more recent posts talk about the FSS.  I like the FSS, it adds another element of recruiting budget management.  If you just give every state for free, that eliminates a portion of skill/budget management involved with recruiting.  A team in WA state shouldn't get the ratings of the Florida recruits w/o paying for it, especailly at the D3 level.

As for the reason of "I built this team up, I don't want to leave so I created another user name".  A lot of coaches here like to compare this to Real Life.  In RL it's always very hard for a coach to leave a program he build up, but it's one that a coach has to make and live with it.  You can't have both.

To me 10 teams is plenty for one user, but I don't know if this falls in line with WIS's business strategies.  Either way, my vote would be 1 account per user, 1 team per world.

EDIT: Originally I thought I read there were 13 worlds, fixed to say 10.
4/17/2013 4:12 PM
It's 10 not 13 worlds, but I agree with everything else.
4/17/2013 4:24 PM
"You clowns it's very simple. With global warning the weather is hotter so the icebergs would be melted and titanic saved." - Jose Canseco

1 team per world seems like a no brainer.  However, I also sympathize with guys who have multiple dynasties in a single world (esp AlBlack, who I consider a friend).  So here's the simple compromise: Those who currently have multiple teams in 1 world are grandfathered in.  They can keep those programs for as long as they wish.  But neither they, nor any other user, can start a new team in a world he/she (let's be honest, he) is already in.

I would think along with this a policy of 1 account per user could be easily implemented.
4/17/2013 4:28 PM
It's a very close vote in the poll. (assuming that everyone who said they want 2 teams without restrictions would compromise for 1000 miles apart)  So it's gonna be interesting what Seble does.
4/17/2013 4:42 PM
For full disclosure I have 2 teams in Naismith. Central Fla and Delaware Valley (invader92) in Pa. D1 and D3

I just don't see why/how they could take away the amount of revenue they are getting by allowing the multiple teams and 1000 mile rule. It's not like people are pounding down the doors to play the game, as evidenced by the amount of open teams. So what happens when they have to charge a lot more per season once that revenue is gone? Or just decide its not worth it and close the game altogether? I think that the majority of people that have multiple IDs are doing it the right way. I know me personally I don't look at D1 recruits when scouting for Delaware Valley and I don't look at anything but D1 recruits when scouting for UCF, so for me there is no crossover recruiting. I understand that not everybody does that, but like I said I think the majority do do it properly. I don't envy WiS for this decision though, whichever way they go.

Also some people might not like the 2 a day worlds so you would be limiting them to 7 teams by not allowing multiple IDs, again cutting into profits. I don't know if I like them or not because I am just now trying my first season in Phlen.

I wouldn't be against having a forum for disclosing aliases (aliaii?) and if found later that you used an alias you hadn't disclosed for something that could even remotely be perceived as cheating then you get punished.
4/17/2013 4:51 PM
Why not change FSS information to be free to all coaches in the world but if you pay for the FSS recruiting service, you will get a bonus multiplier to any recruiting effort on recruits in that state you purchased for that recruiting period.
4/17/2013 5:03 PM
How about making a rule that if you sign a guy you didn't scout, the potential on the recruit is randomized.  There would be exceptions for internationals and PR.  Or just make internationals and PR "scoutable".  
4/17/2013 5:05 PM
Posted by mamxet on 4/17/2013 1:51:00 PM (view original):
here is a suggestion - make it a rule that if you have more than one team in a world you MUST disclose that fact.  There could be a forum thread where people declare their ID's. 

Or maybe even you could add a field to the owner info that allows you to name other ID's.  I'd have two fields - one for other ID's of the same person and one for other related ID's - son, father, spouse (what a bad idea that would be), brother-in-law...etc

THEN,  the natural followup is that any UNDECLARED multiple team (just the first category, a second owned ID) is a violation and upon discovery one team must go.

Its like customs where you have to declare stuff or like a prospectus where you have to disclose it.


This idea hasn't gotten enough run in this thread-- I think this would really work, if you expanded it to require all users sharing an IP address or a credit card to also register, and made the penalties for abuse stiffer.

Imagine a situation where you see questionable recruiting by one player, or an apparent recruiting double-team.  You go to the list to see if you're dealing with a registered ID pair.  Might be the same guy with 2 IDs, might be roommates or a dad and his kid, but either way you know.  If they're registered, fine; you lodge a fair play complaint, and seble investigates, and the first time it happens the guy says it's a coincidence that he and his kid went after your recruits, but after about 3 episodes of this, it's not a coincidence any more, and seble can take action.  If they're not registered, and they're sharing an IP or a credit card, that IP and/or credit card are permanently banned from HD.

This would have zero impact on all the honest guys with multiple IDs.  It would mean that the father-son pair has to be careful to have essentially no recruiting overlap, especially if they get warned for a first questionable episode.  But that's probably a small price to pay to clean up some of the abuse that's probably more common than we imagine. 

Am I missing a problem?
4/17/2013 5:14 PM
Posted by jack_duck on 4/17/2013 4:24:00 PM (view original):
"You clowns it's very simple. With global warning the weather is hotter so the icebergs would be melted and titanic saved." - Jose Canseco

1 team per world seems like a no brainer.  However, I also sympathize with guys who have multiple dynasties in a single world (esp AlBlack, who I consider a friend).  So here's the simple compromise: Those who currently have multiple teams in 1 world are grandfathered in.  They can keep those programs for as long as they wish.  But neither they, nor any other user, can start a new team in a world he/she (let's be honest, he) is already in.

I would think along with this a policy of 1 account per user could be easily implemented.
Sorry to toot my own horn, but what I like about this solution is that it doesn't change the game at all.  We don't have to make FSS free to all, or change the way the game allows this or that.

It simply solves the problem at hand...you know, the one that according to Seble is sucking up so much of CS's time.  The problem is not with coaches who are actually nurturing multiple teams in a world.  The problem is with people starting new programs for the explicit purpose of targeting someone else (um, cheating).
4/17/2013 5:39 PM
I think a very simple way of both deterring sockpuppet accounts and making cheaters more easily identifiable is to disclose recruiting expenditures at the end of each recruiting period. It might be as simple as listing the states purchased in FSS (plus the associated cost) and the amount of money spent to sign each recruit. With this information alone, it would be relatively easy to determine if a coach is engaging in any unsavory recruiting practices. 

This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
4/17/2013 5:53 PM
Posted by treyman on 4/17/2013 5:43:00 PM (view original):
How about when you scout a state you only see info on players for the division you are in.  Then maybe the bottome 25% of of D2 (if you are D3).  If you are a D1 team then you only get to see D1 talent when you scout.  Why would the coach at Duke need to see the potential for D2 and D3 players around the country?  That would keep a coach with multiple teams from benefiting from all the $$$ a big D1 school has.
Not really, when I'm in D2 & D3, I look for dropdown players all the time.  And sometimes when I'm in a higher division I might look for a 1 year transfer from a lower level to fill my schollies to keep some leftover $.
4/17/2013 6:16 PM
Posted by dedelman on 4/17/2013 5:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mamxet on 4/17/2013 1:51:00 PM (view original):
here is a suggestion - make it a rule that if you have more than one team in a world you MUST disclose that fact.  There could be a forum thread where people declare their ID's. 

Or maybe even you could add a field to the owner info that allows you to name other ID's.  I'd have two fields - one for other ID's of the same person and one for other related ID's - son, father, spouse (what a bad idea that would be), brother-in-law...etc

THEN,  the natural followup is that any UNDECLARED multiple team (just the first category, a second owned ID) is a violation and upon discovery one team must go.

Its like customs where you have to declare stuff or like a prospectus where you have to disclose it.


This idea hasn't gotten enough run in this thread-- I think this would really work, if you expanded it to require all users sharing an IP address or a credit card to also register, and made the penalties for abuse stiffer.

Imagine a situation where you see questionable recruiting by one player, or an apparent recruiting double-team.  You go to the list to see if you're dealing with a registered ID pair.  Might be the same guy with 2 IDs, might be roommates or a dad and his kid, but either way you know.  If they're registered, fine; you lodge a fair play complaint, and seble investigates, and the first time it happens the guy says it's a coincidence that he and his kid went after your recruits, but after about 3 episodes of this, it's not a coincidence any more, and seble can take action.  If they're not registered, and they're sharing an IP or a credit card, that IP and/or credit card are permanently banned from HD.

This would have zero impact on all the honest guys with multiple IDs.  It would mean that the father-son pair has to be careful to have essentially no recruiting overlap, especially if they get warned for a first questionable episode.  But that's probably a small price to pay to clean up some of the abuse that's probably more common than we imagine. 

Am I missing a problem?
+1
4/17/2013 6:18 PM
Posted by nachopuzzle on 4/17/2013 5:41:00 PM (view original):
I think a very simple way of both deterring sockpuppet accounts and making cheaters more easily identifiable is to disclose recruiting expenditures at the end of each recruiting period. It might be as simple as listing the states purchased in FSS (plus the associated cost) and the amount of money spent to sign each recruit. With this information alone, it would be relatively easy to determine if a coach is engaging in any unsavory recruiting practices. 

I am opposed to this, as it would reveal lots of things about recruiting strategy to rivals. I'd have no problem with this in the case of a complaint... 
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