All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > some splainin' to do...
5/26/2013 12:23 AM

I've had a few sitemails asking a few questions and hopefully this answers some of them.

I've used the iguana username since season 1 in Allen.
The oldwarrior name was created by my brother and after a couple seasons he basically lost interest in the game.
I picked up his team and finished out the 5 seasons he had purchased.
I don't think I ever tried to hide the identity that I had multiple usernames and dozens of coaches knew me by both user accounts.

That final fifth season I actually had two D2 teams in Allen and was intrigued by the prospect of moving to D1 but also really had a soft spot for the Delta State team.
Ironically the Delta State team wasn't as successful as the Hillsdale team under the oldwarrior name.  Hillsdale was coming off a Final Four and the recruiting class was strong enough to lead the subsequent coach to the NT championship game.

So I moved to D1 with the iguana username, and the oldwarrior username got the Delta State team.  It could just as easily been oldwarrior moving to D1 and Iguana staying at Delta State.

About 15 seasons later I was moving from BYU to Marquette.  It was a strong Horizon conf with myself, oldresorter, majresorter, dogget and a few other solid coaches.  Back in those days it wasn't unusual for us to send 4-5 teams to the NT and for those 8-10 seasons the Horizon was as strong as any mid-major.  Majresorter won a NT with Cleveland State, other reached the Final Four or Elite 8.

Potential rolled out and I actually asked Customer Service if there was an issue with my having two teams in the same world, in different divisions.  No problem at all, they were 700 miles apart.  They mentioned the distance, I didn't.  I thought there maybe was an unspoken 700 mile rule.

Reacting to the changes made in recruit generation, I moved to Michigan State about 30 seasons ago.


Now faced with the option of dropping my Delta State team after 60+ seasons, or moving from A+ Michigan State to a B- prestige team (which was the best open D1 team 1000+ miles from Delta State).  If I did not make a choice, I would be removed at season end.
* Could they transfer my resume?  No.
* Nothing they could do?  I had almost a combined 100 seasons invested in these two teams.
* I asked if I could take the Arizona job if it opened (which was 1000+ miles from Delta) even though some of the Arizona FSS states would obviously help Delta. Yes, Arizona would be fine.
* Did they forsee this rule possibly changing to another arbitrary distance in the future?
* In the future, how much of a reality is free scouting of all states as they've mentioned?  There are recruiting changes in the future but they wouldn't disclose what those could be.

After that song and dance, and not knowing if the current arbitrary distance of 1000 miles could be changed on a whim to 2000 or 700 next week or next year, I just decided to pack it in.

I do regret throwing in the towel on my Delta State team last season.  I think they had a 56 season stretch of making the NT and that final ghost team went 5-22, also having the prestige drop from A+ to B-.  Even had to remove a redshirt on a potential 820+ player to be able to transfer a season to Rupp.
 

-------------------

I'd also like to touch on my b*stard-like "stealing" of a recruit by Michigan State from Henderson State (which is in the Gulf South Conf with my Delta State team).


First, the player was pretty good.  Ended up with a 840 rating, starting two seasons at MSU and made second team all conference.  Probably 90% of the D1 teams would have taken him if they knew the potentials.
So it wasn't a discussion on whether the player was D1 worthy.

How did I choose that recruit?  The morning of signings I had one open scholarship and over $80,000 in recruiting.  I scouted 11 additional states looking for a PF/C.
sent out about $10,000 in a first wave of evaluations.  I then targeted four recruits for additional scouting.
This recruit was one of them.  Word on the Street said he was leaning to Oral Roberts. 
After a few more evaluations he and about 3 other recruits were considering me.
This guy had 7 high-high potentials.  I offered a scholarship, went into the lead, and he signed after a campus visit.

I never realized that Henderson State (barretchap), was recruiting this guy against a human D1 team until after he signed.

I don't know if Henderson St could have beaten out Oral Roberts.  Possibly, as I don't know how much Oral Roberts was willing to dump on this guy.
Maybe Henderson State had dumped a bunch of cash into the guy after the Word on the Street came out and Oral Roberts wasn't leading.
I also don't know if Oral Roberts or Henderson State backed off when MSU showed up on the recruit that morning.

I apologized to barretchap, and he said he was sorry it was even brought up in the forums.
There really wasn't much I could do at that point. 
I offered to provide a screen shot of MSU's FSS screen to show I wasn't using Delta State scouting information.
I even offered to rescind the guy after the next season.


I've been overly cautious to avoid this since then.   I no longer scouted the nation looking for hidden gems with MSU.  The last roster I had didn't have a guy more than 200 miles from Lansing.
I even held off on what looked like a sleeper 40 miles from MSU because a D2 conference mate (elmossle at Lincoln Memorial) was battling another D2 team for him.   I kicked myself for that one as D1 Mississippi came in and took him from the two D2's. 

 

5/26/2013 12:41 AM
Classy as always OW and you know that you don't owe anyone an explanation.  From this long time coach, I can say I really hated to see you leave Catawba in Rupp.  I can remember more than one battle between you and I (at Post), or Alblack at Bowie St.  You broke my heart more than once when I thought I had found just an absolute monster, only to see Catawba pop up on his considering list the next cycle.  Always a challenge playing any of your squads as they were always stacked, but oh did I enjoy that challenge.  Seeing the oldtimers like you (and that's meant as a total compliment) leave, just makes me wonder how much longer I have in this game.  Too long for some I think, ha ha.  Again, always a class act OW/Iguana, HD lost an all-time great.  Best wishes. 
5/26/2013 12:46 AM
I don't think you had any explaining to do, but I appreciate you doing so, as new players like me can get a better sense of everything surrounding this issue. 

One thing I've mentioned in other threads is the possibility of WIS giving HD credits in exchange for giving up a long-held team to comply with the 1,000 mile rule (given that you got both teams before said rule). Did you ever ask CS about that? Would it even be worth it if they offered? 
5/26/2013 1:09 AM
Seble clearly doesn't care, but I don't know how he can read OW's post above and sit idly by knowing that OW wanted to stay, and only wanted some assurance that the rules weren't going to again arbitrarily change. 

Such a poorly run site sometimes.
5/26/2013 1:23 AM
Posted by isack24 on 5/26/2013 1:09:00 AM (view original):
Seble clearly doesn't care, but I don't know how he can read OW's post above and sit idly by knowing that OW wanted to stay, and only wanted some assurance that the rules weren't going to again arbitrarily change. 

Such a poorly run site sometimes.
I would agree wholeheartedly, but only if you changed "sometimes" to "most of the time".
5/26/2013 4:06 AM
im relatively familiar with how subscription based sites are run/should be fun and this site is obviously run horrifically. 

don't mean to turn this into a "bash WIS" thread but after reading about this situation #cmonson
5/26/2013 4:51 AM
I wish that WIS would do something to help in this kind of situation ... the easiest thing would be to transfer one of the resumes to another world. Not to give the person another team in the new world, just to move the experience to an unemployed coach in another world as a one time event for people who were following the rules when they changed.
5/26/2013 6:15 AM
What do you mean by high-high potential?
5/26/2013 8:42 AM (edited)
Posted by hughesjr on 5/26/2013 4:51:00 AM (view original):
I wish that WIS would do something to help in this kind of situation ... the easiest thing would be to transfer one of the resumes to another world. Not to give the person another team in the new world, just to move the experience to an unemployed coach in another world as a one time event for people who were following the rules when they changed.
i requested this in my situation as well, and was clearly shot down. i sort of went through the same loop as iguana/oldwarrior on coach_billyg/gillispie1, which of course had the only 2 teams i gave a damn about in the last couple years. first, trying to argue the case, and finally, creatively trying to find a work around to satisfy both parties. giving my ID over to a friend so i could at least watch south carolina play out a couple seasons was shot down. transferring a resume to another world was shot down. i also asked, can i just play one last season? having spent a year rehabbing resumes after they got crushed from an in-place offseason when i couldnt figure out how to stand up from a team (didnt realize then you had to send a ticket), i finally had an a+ team back, which was annoying in and of itself - because when i tried to leave both my other IDs, they were over qualified for any a+ job - i should have been able to start where i left off. so after rebuilding due to a deficiency in the HD interface, i finally get an a+, recruit 2 classes, play a season with 0 seniors and 1 junior where nobody leaves - and then have to leave, before finally getting to play this #1 preseason team? worst possible time, isnt it? i asked if i could have my recruiting budget stripped to 0 on that team so i couldnt abuse it, with only 1 recruit i didnt care about that - but NO. i tried a few other angles and all i got was NO.

eventually seble offered to switch me with someone else if i could find someone willing. a bunch of coaches offered but so many had long time teams, i didnt want to screw up their situation, as much as i appreciated the offer. so i went with someone with an inactive resume, they picked up a team, to "swap in" for coach_billyg, so i could be swapped out to nothing. even that got screwed up, i somehow landed in the cal CAA which caused more drama, and seble sent me a message saying he removed me from the cal CAA per my request but was unhappy about the situation because he was trying to help by swapping and somehow i had a more complex plan (not sure why being swapped out to nothing is so much bigger of a favor than being swapped out to another team. further, i had already told him i had a third team in california and the map was too restrictive, i was just going to cut to 2 teams - playing south carolina for 1, then swapping back - so why he thought i could play a d2 team in california is beyond me). 

its somewhat amazing to me that the best that could be done was a swap, and then seble even got ****** about that. the message is pretty clear, i think - seble just doesnt want to spend time on it. i even pushed back on free HD, asking, if i was really cheating, wouldnt i simply pick up a few free HD teams and send evals to anyone decent - a much bigger advantage than simple FSS sharing? i also shared some free-eval glitch i had been researching (in the quest to see if a free-effort glitch existed, someone casually suggested to me it might, but i took it seriously - i actually think it existed, if you timed things right around cycle rollover, but i turned in the glitch before i finished my research). that was basically to prove a point, ive always shared bugs and glitches with seble over time, clearly i would just abuse those if that was the goal. but he just seems to ignore all of that, i think he just doesnt want to mess with it.

the sad part is i think if every coach with multiple IDs was actually sent in, the headache would be so big, i think seble would change the policy. but what do you do? turn in 50 names and risk it backfiring, and those guys getting screwed over? totally not worth it. 

actually i will say there is clearly a communication gap here, or something - seble said to me, division never had anything to do with it (which is true, but he meant it the other way). the rules went like this - no teams in the same conference, then, no teams in the same division in the same geographic region (that was a few years ago), and finally, no teams within 1000 miles. seble disagrees you could have 2 teams 10 miles apart in different divisions, 2 years ago. i dont know if im crazy or him, but i know where id place my bet. the bottom line to me is the overall communication and facilitation of these rules has just been god-awful from day 1. if you make a rule that puts people in violation, who always followed the rules, that situation *clearly* needs to be mediated. whats the worst thing you can do? assure coaches you wont really enforce the rule unless people have a problem with you specifically, and then later on enforce the rule when no suggestion of impropriety exists. im more upset about the handling than the rule, i could live with the rule, i cant live with the handling.
5/26/2013 8:45 AM
whats kind of funny, in a sad way, is that in some of these cases, seble will crush all your reputations (on your main ID and all alts) as a "penalty" for violating the rules. i actually sort of wish he did that in my case, i suspect he wanted to, but lacked the balls? i think when people have teams picked up recently where there is no way to argue you were complaint before the rule change or anything, he will do that reputation hit. i just thought it was typical that the enforcement really works different ways in different situations, and none of that is made even the least bit clear to anybody.
5/26/2013 9:07 AM
It's just been handled completely ridiculously.  The only people getting "caught" are those who never hid the fact that they had 2 teams in the first place.  And, as such, were the least likely to be doing so in order to gain an unfair advantage.  The ones who actually use 1 team to farm for another?  Good luck catching them...not that WIS would put forth any effort whatsoever to do so.
5/26/2013 3:24 PM
Hey stinenavy where you at?

That sucks for you iguana...I never really talked to you and you seem like a stand up guy...sorry to see you get railroaded like this because of a poor policy and badge-carrying rat bastards who have nothing better to do with their time than play hall monitor.

5/27/2013 3:36 PM
My question is why didn't Iguana1 resolve this issue himself back in July?
5/27/2013 8:36 PM
Posted by stinenavy on 5/27/2013 3:36:00 PM (view original):
My question is why didn't Iguana1 resolve this issue himself back in July?
probably because the sentiment communicated by site staff was that people with existing teams didnt really have to worry as long as they did nothing wrong - that came across clearly to pretty many people. or maybe because it sucks to lose the team/resume you spent so much time building and WIS did nothing to mediate the situation, so people figured well, what do i have to lose? or maybe its because we just wanted to **** you off.
5/27/2013 10:35 PM
Posted by isack24 on 5/26/2013 1:09:00 AM (view original):
Seble clearly doesn't care, but I don't know how he can read OW's post above and sit idly by knowing that OW wanted to stay, and only wanted some assurance that the rules weren't going to again arbitrarily change. 

Such a poorly run site sometimes.
yeah, seble doesn't care about the site in same way that Iguana (whose work I still respect) actually believes he quit his favorite team because he's unsure of WIS's arbitrary 1000 mile rule???

He had a long time mitigate the problem...even as hard as it can be to let go fantasy computer algorithms (which trust me, I know it how difficult it can be).

Even though I ABSOLUTELY believe his explanation about the recruiting incident, the song remains unchanged. If he were to have been following the WIS guidelines of fairplay then at least he would have had some cover, but he didn't.

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