All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Anybody watching Spurs/Heat game...thoughts?
6/17/2013 1:50 PM
"LeBron quit on his team in the midst of a playoff game."  That's exactly why I hate Kobe and Lebron equally.  (And Pippen, for that matter)
6/17/2013 1:56 PM
Posted by bistiza on 6/17/2013 1:50:00 PM (view original):
However, if you get to page 20 or so you WILL get bistiza to tell you that he DID explain it, and you just need to go find it.  He's not going to repeat it for you.

Here's the reality: I just told you why karma would work the way I suggested for LeBron if it were real.

But if you wait until after page 20, dahs or bad_luck or someone else will barge into the thread and demand the EXACT same answer. I will refer them to earlier in the thread so I don't have to repeat anything. They, being too lazy to go read it or deliberately wanting to avoid it, will deny it exists.

THAT is what happened in the thread about the age of the earth.
IIRC, and I do, nobody could find it in that thread because you deleted it after it became obvious that your "science" was actually a bunch of unsubstantiated or disproven claims...
6/17/2013 1:56 PM
But I will give you credit for giving a much more reasonable explanation in this thread, to be fair...
6/17/2013 1:57 PM
No, but they certainly quit on their teams in the playoffs.  

And Kobe gets bonus points for purposely shooting the Lakers out of a title against the Pistons just so Shaq wouldn't win yet another Finals MVP.  There's no logical reason for him to have taken 30 more shots than Shaq that series. Shaq shot 63% while Kobe shot 38%.  
6/17/2013 3:00 PM
Posted by bistiza on 6/17/2013 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Kobe and Pippen didn't make a public spectacle of screwing over their team as they left.
Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony did, but they didn't have a TV special on it. So instead of a career ending injury do they only get to miss 5 seasons on your karma scale?

If a GM trades a player that wants to stay, what does he get on your karma scale?
6/17/2013 3:04 PM
Obviously none.  Teams have no obligations to players, only the other way around...

Fans are always more loyal to teams than players.  During the big baseball strike of '94 to '95 public opinion polls showed that the average American was more than twice as likely to favor the owners than the players.  And that strike was about the owners trying to take back benefits they had previously granted the players, rather than the players demanding more.  That's just the way of things - fans love their teams, and if the best thing for a player isn't the best for their team they'll hold it against the guy forever.  Personally, I commend Mike Mussina for leaving Baltimore for NY - Angelos deserved it.  But I sure don't love him for it.

6/17/2013 3:21 PM
Posted by ll316 on 6/17/2013 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Reddyred - I do agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not sure you can compare having a local talent probably being the most talented (best is open for debate) player of all time and playing on your hometown team to a couple random #1 draft picks.  It's just not the same.

Personally, I hate him for tucking tail and running to his competitors.  But that puts me at a weird rooting conundrum. I don't want him lose to the Spurs, which would basically ensure he'd sign with them when his contract runs out.

P.S.  But I do like the assumption that the NBA is rigged.  Because it is.

Dont get me wrong II316, the loss of Lebron James was epic for cleveland, but the cavs definitely didnt walk away empty handed... Kyrie Irving and a pick yet to be determined(I think they also got a second round miami pick as well along with a sizeable trade exception).. I think that settles the situation as best as it could be settled considering the contract was up.

I don't blame people for viewing the situation like this (I wanted him to stay in Cleveland myself at the time), but you have to agree that the cavs did NOTHING to support Lebron. Absolutely nothing. I hope he wins and stays in Miami because with all the bad press over the past few years- he's still managed to play through it and do so successfully.

Definitely--- from the lottery to the movement of superstar players

6/17/2013 10:35 PM
"Leaving a team in the most disloyal way possible*" = "life-altering injury"?

Probably the worst karma analysis of all time. Why wouldn't karma rather him never hit another shot and run Miami into the ground? Or have Wade and Bosh leave to go to Cleveland and then win a championship there? Why would karma prefer to physically hurt people who haven't physically hurt someone else? Even though you say you don't wish injury on Lebron, the absurdity of your analysis certainly leads people to less absurd leaps.

*No, I don't agree with the statement, just using bistiza's feelings to highlight.
6/17/2013 11:11 PM
I might have missed it earlier, but the whole "karma" thing, didn't Bistiza bring it up in the first place?  And now for the last couple of pages, he's been telling us he doesn't believe in it anyway?  So if you don't believe it in, why even bring it up?  No one else had.
6/18/2013 8:39 AM
Posted by bistiza on 6/17/2013 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Kobe and Pippen didn't make a public spectacle of screwing over their team as they left.
Lebron didn't either.  Cleveland didn't lock him up to a long-term contract, making him a free agent, therefore he didn't technically have a team to screw over when "The Decision" was aired. 
6/18/2013 8:59 AM
So, does the NBA want there to be a game 7?  Will Stern be watching that the officials make it so?  Cue the X-files music.......
6/18/2013 9:08 AM
Posted by bistiza on 6/18/2013 8:36:00 AM (view original):
Why wouldn't karma rather him never hit another shot and run Miami into the ground? Or have Wade and Bosh leave to go to Cleveland and then win a championship there?

You're making it more complex than would be necessary. If LeBron suffered a career-ending injury, he would "never hit another shot" as a result of that happening. We don't know what Wade and Bosh would do, but they're not necessary for "karma" to bite LeBron in the *** either.
Why would karma prefer to physically hurt people who haven't physically hurt someone else?

Two points: First, I don't think "karma" exists, but if it did, I don't know that it would be confined to returning exactly what was given out in the same exact manner. Second, even if that were the case, I've seen LeBron hit people pretty hard on the court. I'm sure he's caused some injuries somewhere along the way, even if we didn't hear much about it.
Even though you say you don't wish injury on Lebron, the absurdity of your analysis certainly leads people to less absurd leaps.

No. The analysis is fine. You can disagree with you want, but it's not absurd.

The leaps are all that is absurd, and this is a **** poor excuse for making them. 

Forget your pride and just admit you made the mistake of jumping to a ridiculous conclusion and move on instead of making excuses for it.
I might have missed it earlier, but the whole "karma" thing, didn't Bistiza bring it up in the first place?  And now for the last couple of pages, he's been telling us he doesn't believe in it anyway?  So if you don't believe it in, why even bring it up?  No one else had.

Recap of the thread:

I mentioned how some people have suggested "karma" has affected LeBron, i.e. Dallas beat Miami in the finals before they could win one and other such things.

I pointed out how I don't believe in "karma" and used LeBron as an example, saying if "karma" existed, he'd have suffered more than he has, such as with a career-ending injury.

So while I "brought it up" in this particular thread, I did not "bring it up" overall. I also don't have to believe in something in order to "bring it up" in discussion or participate in a discussion about it.
First, forget your pride and admit that you have now accused me of accusing you of something that I never said. That wasn't me. Never said anything about what you intended. Since you're so big on admitting when you're wrong, I await your apology. I won't hold my breath.

Frankly, I'm only continuing this because you're condescending.

The analysis isn't fine. The point is that what Lebron did is NOWHERE near what you're suggestion his karmic balance should be. Not even in the same universe. Your belief is that serious physical harm is the karmic equivalent of althetic disloyalty. Yes, that is absurd.
6/18/2013 9:19 AM
Posted by fd343ny on 6/18/2013 8:59:00 AM (view original):
So, does the NBA want there to be a game 7?  Will Stern be watching that the officials make it so?  Cue the X-files music.......
Joey Crawford is leading the officiating crew, so ANYTHING is possible.  Including a tie. 
6/18/2013 9:22 AM
I used to think Joey Crawford hated Tim Duncan. Then I watched him officate games with Lebron. He's just awful.
6/18/2013 10:42 AM
Posted by darnoc29099 on 6/18/2013 8:39:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bistiza on 6/17/2013 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Kobe and Pippen didn't make a public spectacle of screwing over their team as they left.
Lebron didn't either.  Cleveland didn't lock him up to a long-term contract, making him a free agent, therefore he didn't technically have a team to screw over when "The Decision" was aired. 
lebron would not agree to a long term contact with cleveland because he and wade and bosh had planned out a year before that they were all joining up in miami. and that is why many people think lebron played so horribly in the boston series his last season in cleveland...he had to tank in the playoffs that season because if he managed to win the nba championship, then he certainly could not have carried out his plans to join his buddies in miami while claiming that he was doing it to win a title. and as a sidenote...the cavs inability to lock him up long term wasnt based on their lack of trying...they made every free agent and roster move they could that lebron wanted to try to keep him happy...they brought in a variety of guys to attempt to give lebron some help...flip murray, drew gooden, ben wallace, joe smith, wally sczerbiak, delonte west, mo williams, antawn jamison, shaquille oneal...they even fired mike brown and brought in byron scott to attempt to please lebron...but lebron is an egomaniac...he wont sign a long term deal with miami before his current contract expires either...he loves the attention and relishes every team in the nba drooling over the opportunity to sign him
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