All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Anybody watching Spurs/Heat game...thoughts?
6/26/2013 9:53 AM
Disaster? Really? Since then LJ has made 3 trips to the finals and won 2. Has also been voted league MVP. A disaster for whom? Oh yeah, a small group I'm Ohio. No wonder I didn't notice.
6/26/2013 10:06 AM
Posted by osgonlz on 6/26/2013 9:53:00 AM (view original):
Disaster? Really? Since then LJ has made 3 trips to the finals and won 2. Has also been voted league MVP. A disaster for whom? Oh yeah, a small group I'm Ohio. No wonder I didn't notice.
None of that is related to the hour-long TV special, which yes, was a complete disaster for everyone except the Boys and Girls Club.
6/26/2013 11:23 AM
Posted by bistiza on 6/26/2013 10:37:00 AM (view original):
Since when do you need to have an economy to receive bad publicity?

You don't, and I didn't say you did.

The analogy is bad because we're talking about the effect of bad publicity on an economy, and a cat obviously doesn't have an economy.

I really can't believe I just had to explain that.
I'm saying they are analogous in terms of whether or not that bad publicity actually existed.

There is zero question the bad publicity existed for the city of Cleveland and surrounding areas as a result of the decision. The only question is what kind of impact that had on the economy and to what extent or dollar value that amounted to.

If you honestly don't think the bad publicity existed, then you need to learn more about how actions of celebrities affect publicity for anything they are associated with, including cities or regions (and yes, like it or not, LeBron is a celebrity athlete).
My point was that Cleveland and the Cavs were clearly seen by everyone as the victim and LeBron the villain in that exchange.
First, I don't agree with this. I'm sure some people didn't view the city and the team as victims.

Second, even if what you are saying were true, that doesn't mean no bad publicity existed for the team or the city as a result of the "exchange" as you call it.
 Any bad publicity (and I think it was minimal, really, relative to the sympathy they got) that Cleveland and the Cavs got out of "The Decision" and the fallout was a result of actions which were entirely within their control.
First, once again, you need to understand how the actions of a famous person or celebrity affect anything they are associated with.

Second, yes, some of the actions were the result of the team owner, fans, and others reacting to "the decision". That's only relevant if you want to say you can't blame LeBron directly for those things.

Indirectly, those things did come about because of "the decision" - not simply LeBron leaving through free agency or trade - so they should be attributed to "the decision" and not simply to LeBron leaving.
You're all about people being responsible for their choices - are you really going to hold LeBron responsible for the actions of Dan Gilbert and the Cleveland fans?  Actions which very well could have happened anyhow.
First, yes, they are responsible for their own choices.

Second, I don't think those actions would have been the same without "the decision", and that's part of my point. If LeBron just leaves through free agency or trade in a normal fashion without his own self-hype through "the decision", while Gilbert and fans would no doubt be less than pleased, I don't think it incites the anger that "the decision" certainly did.

Again, it all goes back to "the decision" was an unwise move on Lebron's part that had a negative impact on a lot of people, on the team, and on the economy of Cleveland and its surrounding area.
And for the record, I don't care, I just saw you said you were done with this thread and wanted to see if I could bait you back in. 
For the record, I only said I was done with the thread because I wanted to be done dealing with ike and dahs, whom I still haven't responded to since.

I was actually hoping other people would come back in and join what I think has otherwise been a rather nice discussion - so thank you for doing what I wanted you to do.

You baited me about as much as a fish baits a fisherman.
"There is zero question the bad publicity existed for the city of Cleveland and surrounding areas as a result of the decision."

No, there is a pretty big question about that.
6/26/2013 12:00 PM
You didn't have to explain anything to me bis, I understand that YOU were talking about the effect of bad publicity on an economy.  Since I'm not arguing the premise that bad publicity can damage a city's economy (duh), why would I make an analogy dealing with that?  I'm arguing that there was no additional bad publicity for the city as a result of "The Decision" beyond what there would have been if LeBron had just held a standard press conference, or if there was, it was as a result of the actions of others in response, not anything LeBron did.   If anything, I believe "The Decision" itself engendered more sympathy for the team and the city since LeBron came off looking like an ***.  

And I think earlier I saw you say that more people found about LeBron leaving as a result of "The Decision."  That's just silly.  ESPN (and the rest of the sports media) was wall-to-wall with LeBron's every move for days and weeks prior to "The Decision."   And the show was on ESPN, so it's not like a bunch of random non-sports fans stumbled on it.
6/26/2013 12:14 PM
I find it hilarious that bistiza thinks he's making these amazing points, when he's not even coming close to making anything other than ridiculous claims. I would point out all the inaccuracies and absurdities in his arguments but what's the point? Arguing with him is the equivalent of trying to explain something to a child who says "Why?" after everything you say. 
6/26/2013 1:16 PM
I used to think I was an arrogant jackass.  Bistiza makes me feel good about myself.
6/27/2013 11:09 AM
I very easily can, but only to logical people. You sir are not logical, you think you are but you certainly are not. Other people will agree with me, but you will make some counterclaim that is both silly and inaccurate, you won't be right but you'll never admit you are wrong. Like you have done this entire thread, you will just claim everybody else is wrong and that you are so superior to everybody in the art of debating that you are the only one that can see that.

So like I said, what's the point of even taking the time to make a well reasoned argument when all you are going to do is make some bad argument and claim it to be well reasoned and then say the only reason I don't agree with what you are saying is because you are more intelligent than me, and/or are simply a better debater? When I was younger I would argue with you all day long, believing I could convince you of seeing things my way, but now I realize some battles are better left unfought. 
6/27/2013 11:13 AM
This is like a car accident, I can't stop watching. I have nothing against you personally bis, I couldn't care less if you personally were right or wrong about something. In this situation, I think the decision didn't reflect badly on the city of Cleveland, rather it reflected badly on the Cavs organization, but I don't think anybody, even sports fans, would say they thought less of Cleveland because of the way LeBron left. The bad publicity for Cleveland came when people started over-reacting to LeBrom leaving (like burning his jersey in he streets). The over reaction of those people can hardly be blamed on LeBron.

Also, I would argue LeBron wasn't exactly putting his stamp of approval on Cleveland when he didn't live near the city (the Cavs then built a practice facility near his house) and he would show up to Clerland sporting events wearing the opposing team's gear. By leaving in the manner he did, he was not removing his stamp of approval on Cleveland because he had never really put his stamp of approval on there anyway.
6/27/2013 11:19 AM
"You sir are not logical, you think you are but you certainly are not."

No, he doesn't. He has put on what I like to call the "long troll." Slow playing his crazy until the middle of the thread when people are pot-committed. I must admit, it's been a pretty impressive troll.
6/27/2013 11:54 AM
Posted by ike1024 on 6/27/2013 11:19:00 AM (view original):
"You sir are not logical, you think you are but you certainly are not."

No, he doesn't. He has put on what I like to call the "long troll." Slow playing his crazy until the middle of the thread when people are pot-committed. I must admit, it's been a pretty impressive troll.
Man I hope so. And Bistiza, it's not even worth the time or effort to get into a back and forth with you. Like I said it's the equivalent of explaining something to a child who asks "why?" to everything you say. 
6/27/2013 1:30 PM
I know this is true not only because that's what typically happens when a celebrity figure effectively removes a "stamp of approval" from a region, but also because I've spoken with many people personally who said they thought less of the city because of what LeBron did with respect to "the decision".
This sounds like a conversation lots of people have in the real world.  Obviously I've had it myself with many people.  Or maybe I'm anyone other than you who has normal human conversations in which a statement like this would literally NEVER come up.
6/27/2013 1:34 PM
I could, in fact, make a strong, scientifically sound argument that the sky is NOT, in fact, blue.  It's highly dependent on how you want to define the property of having color.  Pick something slightly less ambiguous as your obvious argument.  1+1 = 2, for example.  But please specify that we're working in a base larger than binary, in which case you would of course be wrong.

I'm nicer than you, though, since I warned you that I'm going to pull some totally irrelevant point out of my ***, like how I meant to deal in binary the whole time and 1+1 never did equal 2.  And then act as if I'd won some great victory because you had fallen into the common logical fallacy of only working within the numerical system you were familiar with, rather than the one that was really relevant to this discussion forum, since we're using the internet and computers really can't understand a 2.
6/27/2013 1:46 PM
I know this is true not only because that's what typically happens .....

This is great and almost the definition of logical fallacy. Because it typically happens it is a fact......
6/27/2013 1:52 PM
I came back to this thread looking for more discussion about the heat and the spurs or at least about lebron and his impact on cleveland, but all I see is people arguing about arguing for goodness sakes.

What I also see is this bis you rub ppl the wrong way because you can't figure out how to say what you want to say without coming across as some kind of arrogant know it all guy you seem smart but you sure need to learn some social skills. As for everyone else do you all just enjoy arguing with bis because you think he's an azz or something because clearly you will not change his mind on anything so you can't expect that to happen so what is the point then unless you just want to pester him because you don't like him. I think bis is not a troll bc he seems to believe what he says plus why would anyone troll on this kind of site but if he is a troll then some of you are playing right into his hands anyway and either way bis is not ever going to give up on this so unless you are having fun there is no point.

6/27/2013 2:12 PM
Posted by shawnfucious on 6/27/2013 1:52:00 PM (view original):
I came back to this thread looking for more discussion about the heat and the spurs or at least about lebron and his impact on cleveland, but all I see is people arguing about arguing for goodness sakes.

What I also see is this bis you rub ppl the wrong way because you can't figure out how to say what you want to say without coming across as some kind of arrogant know it all guy you seem smart but you sure need to learn some social skills. As for everyone else do you all just enjoy arguing with bis because you think he's an azz or something because clearly you will not change his mind on anything so you can't expect that to happen so what is the point then unless you just want to pester him because you don't like him. I think bis is not a troll bc he seems to believe what he says plus why would anyone troll on this kind of site but if he is a troll then some of you are playing right into his hands anyway and either way bis is not ever going to give up on this so unless you are having fun there is no point.

"I think bis is not a troll bc he seems to believe what he says"

Ah, the mark of the elite troll...
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