All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Phelan: One Team, 6 EE's
6/14/2013 7:52 AM
Phelan just ended their season last night, and LSU, a team that made the Elite 8, got hammered with 6 EE's. The roster already included 3 walk-ons, so LSU will only have 3 returning players next season. What are your thoughts on the EE process?


Votes: 84
(Last vote received: 6/27/2013 5:03 AM)
6/14/2013 9:03 AM
none of the above - EEs should exist - but the many EEs who get taken in the second half of the second round should be toned back.

EE should be likely if a kid will go lottery, good chance if he will go first round, some chance if first half of second round and small chance if 2nd half of 2nd round.  Tons of EEs in this game go at the end of the 2nd round and that maximizes frustrationb
6/14/2013 9:58 AM
i believe the rules were laid out that said you could lose up to 6 players who were either srs or ee's and that walkons and 1 year signings didn't count against his limit.  as the rules were expressed to us (or at least as to my recollection of the rules being expressed to us) we should have all known that this was a possibility to happen if we had to take multiple walkons.

now with that said, this is unbelievable to me.  i'm fine with 6 as a cap, but i think these situations are just too extreme and too penal.  Maybe cap the number of EE's at 3.  at least if you have to take walkons and play with 8 or 9 guys you know that worst case you will have 5 or 6 coming back and it wont absolutely destroy your program to have this happen.

at first i was happy to only lose 1 of the 3 guys i expected to lose but now i feel a little guilty.  
6/14/2013 10:03 AM
actually i think the cap was bumped to 7, but regardless my point remains unchanged
6/14/2013 10:13 AM
Orginally, I think the cap was that you couldn't have any more EE's once seniors + EE's reached a total of 5 (or maybe it was 6, I don't remember). But that led to coaches intentionally signing 1-year transfers as a way to limit how many EE's they could have. If a system is put in place to limit or minimize the number of EE's a team has, it can't be something that can be manipulated or circumvented like that.
6/14/2013 10:18 AM
i think it was 6 and then bumped to 7 because of what you just mentioned prof.  i think what i proposed would work....ee + sr's still caps at 7 (or preferably 6), but you can't have more than 3 EE's.  If you have no Sr's and 3 walkons like LSU did, worst case scenario you're bringing back 6 guys.  i you have no walkons, no seniors, you couldn't lose more than 3 guys which is still going to be a fair hit.  

keep a rule in place that 1 year signings don't count towards your overall cap and it won't really affect anything as far as people fudging their cap to limit EE's.  
6/14/2013 11:45 AM
While I feel MMTs pain losing 6 guys how about myself losing a sophomore and freshman and I lost in the 3rd round of the PIT. The national champ? 0 EEs, In fact only one team in the Final 4 matched or had more EEs and unfortunately that was my conference mate who lost 3. The other 3 final 4 teams combined to equal my EEs. 

I definitely think there should be EEs, but I think the old system was better where team success was a major determinant in who left early. Also 6 EEs is way overboard, however, had MMT won a title I don't think he'd mind so much which is why success needs to be a bigger determinant. 
6/14/2013 11:58 AM
I don't really see an issue with this. They are all legitimate EEs.

NT champ has 0 EEs because they have 7 seniors... it's impossible for them to have EEs.

6/14/2013 2:39 PM
I voted for B.

What happened to LSU should simply not be possible.

The big problem to me is that getting lucky/unlucky with EEs is just an enormous factor -- it basically has the power to determine whether or not your team will be a title contender the following season. And something like that should most certainly not boil down to (essentially) luck.
6/14/2013 3:24 PM
you can look at it lots of ways, but girt takes it in the right direction.  What is good for HD as a game?

The current situation makes EE's a major element in one's chance of a title or a deep run.  Get hit hard and your chances evaporate.  Get lucky, and you have a shot.

One approach - let coaches know more at the time of recruiting about odds of EE.  Make that part of the calculus.

Another - could combine - tone it down enough so that it wont be a key factor

As it is, at the end of a season the biggest night for strong teams is the night when one sees whether or not you have lost major EE talent.
6/14/2013 3:28 PM
I wouldn't have much of a problem with EEs if freshman and sophomores could have bigger impacts. If I have a freshman EE, he shouldn't only be able to average 10PPG. He should be good enough to be getting 15 a game efficiently, same goes for Sophs. The problem is the way IQ works in this game doesn't allow for freshman and sophomores to dominate although they have the ratings to do so. Then these same guys leave early based on their ratings, when they never came close to producing at the level their ratings suggested they should.
6/14/2013 3:35 PM (edited)
B, I don't have a problem with EE's at all. They are one of the few things left to keep the playing field from being dominated by a select few.
However, 6 on one team is a joke.
Limit it to 3 or even 4 max would be a pretty simple solution. (after a 2nd it should be expotentially harder to lose the next one).
I also think a soft limit of 22 - 25 total would be an improvement.
I have seen seasons with 32 kids leaving early.... That's just too many. When you are a mid-major and your one good junior leaves early and gets drafted next to last in the second round... something's wrong.
6/14/2013 3:56 PM (edited)
Posted by girt25 on 6/14/2013 2:39:00 PM (view original):
I voted for B.

What happened to LSU should simply not be possible.

The big problem to me is that getting lucky/unlucky with EEs is just an enormous factor -- it basically has the power to determine whether or not your team will be a title contender the following season. And something like that should most certainly not boil down to (essentially) luck.
+1

This is the most troubling thing to me about the EE process. It has enormous consequences, and it is predicated mostly on flat out dumb luck. I thought my team in Phelan had 7 players that could potentially go EE and was bracing for at least 3. I was lucky and had only 1. I will have a very good team next season. Meanwhile, LSU got completely wiped out and won't be competitive (at an elite level) for probably a couple of seasons. Those outcomes easily could have been reversed, based solely on luck. One coach makes out, the other is crushed. This isn't luck around the margins. This is determinative luck.
6/14/2013 4:33 PM
Just another reason why D2 is better than D1.
6/14/2013 5:04 PM
Posted by girt25 on 6/14/2013 2:39:00 PM (view original):
I voted for B.

What happened to LSU should simply not be possible.

The big problem to me is that getting lucky/unlucky with EEs is just an enormous factor -- it basically has the power to determine whether or not your team will be a title contender the following season. And something like that should most certainly not boil down to (essentially) luck.
100% agree.

How's this for a stat: Alabama (Smith) has only graduated 10 seniors in the last 11 years.  That's absurd.

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