Switched my Cal Santa Cruz team from motion to flex, and for 2 years, did 25-20, vice 20-20.  Since at 20-20, a player learns his offensive and defensive sets at the same rate, it was s good chance to see what that extra 5 minutes did.   A guy starting both flex and man at F gained four days over the course of both his FR and Soph seasons--and spent 28 of the 68 practice days at a higher level of flex than man, since it is cumulative.    Has anyone worked out the correlation between IQ and skill points?  Say, how much better is a B+ than a B, in terms of skill points?  Seem to remember one vet coach said a letter grade was worth about 10 points in AT and SP--is that a whole letter grade, such as B to A?  Trying to figure out whether it is best to assign more than 20 points to the sets.  One veteran coach told me he doesn't use 20-20; another says he bumps up his D, but not his O. 

I'm curious in this as well but don't forget the impact of work ethic and playing time as well as starts for some guys. I have a 4 star dud with a 10 WE whose IQ's remain a half to full grade below his counterparts with the same practice time. I thought it was kind of the law of diminishing returns over 20 minutes of practice time, meaning you should only do it if you have maxed out most of your key players' key stats. I also don't know about a full 10 points per letter grade, I would say closer to 5 to 10, but this is my subjective opinion.

Found my note on Lost Myth's advice to us masses:  he wrote that he used 27 or 28 minutes on both offense and defense, so he clearly felt that 27 or 28 minutes did not reach the point of diminishing returns.  His take was that a full letter grade was worth 7-8 speed points and 15-20 AT points for guards; 5-6 AT points and 15-20 speed points for bigs.  OK that's not the difference between a B and a B+, but between a B and an A?   Been playing with this for about 3 seasons now, and keeping stats on what practice day guys gain in IQ.  Anyone that wants to share thoughts about this, but not where there conference mates can see it, feel free to site mail me. 

Posted by tedlukacs on 9/21/2013 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Found my note on Lost Myth's advice to us masses:  he wrote that he used 27 or 28 minutes on both offense and defense, so he clearly felt that 27 or 28 minutes did not reach the point of diminishing returns.  His take was that a full letter grade was worth 7-8 speed points and 15-20 AT points for guards; 5-6 AT points and 15-20 speed points for bigs.  OK that's not the difference between a B and a B+, but between a B and an A?   Been playing with this for about 3 seasons now, and keeping stats on what practice day guys gain in IQ.  Anyone that wants to share thoughts about this, but not where there conference mates can see it, feel free to site mail me. 

Theres no way that part about IQ being worth 15-20 ATH points per letter grade can be right.  That would mean the difference between an F and A IQ guard would be equivalent to 60-80 points in ATH.  Makes even less sense when you use that range as SPD for bigs.  Maybe he meant that was the difference between an F and A+ IQ player?  That would make a lot more sense to me.

Posted by tedlukacs on 9/21/2013 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Found my note on Lost Myth's advice to us masses:  he wrote that he used 27 or 28 minutes on both offense and defense, so he clearly felt that 27 or 28 minutes did not reach the point of diminishing returns.  His take was that a full letter grade was worth 7-8 speed points and 15-20 AT points for guards; 5-6 AT points and 15-20 speed points for bigs.  OK that's not the difference between a B and a B+, but between a B and an A?   Been playing with this for about 3 seasons now, and keeping stats on what practice day guys gain in IQ.  Anyone that wants to share thoughts about this, but not where there conference mates can see it, feel free to site mail me. 

I have to agree with clouse that these numbers can't be right. I definitely believe the law of diminishing returns for individual attributes at 20 minutes, but IQ I'm not sure, I've played 20 and 25 minutes and truly thought I felt this law at 25, switched back to 20 because I didn't really see much of a difference in IQ and felt like I lost those minutes and extra points in individual attributes. 27-28 seems way too high. Be interested to hear if there any coaches currently coaching with this many Minutes in practice sets.

25 minutes is the number that always gets tossed around on the forums for IQ diminishing returns.

Trying 23-23.  Every player has skills you can short, and tend to use minimal SH.  Some of our guys never spend a minute of SH in their careers.   When guys reach a certain IQ, things just seem to click for them.

guys you have to keep in mind the context - that was written, i believe, before the new engine came out. 27-28 minutes clearly hits diminishing returns, but so does anything over 10 minutes. i think you get to the point of such diminished returns that its not going to make a noticeable impact on IQ over 30, but there is a pretty small difference in the 25-30 range, too. back then players capped as sophs so it was very normal for coaches to run 25+ minutes. today that is not the case. also back then ath for guards was way less valuable than it is today, so you have to keep that in mind too...

i recommend in this day and age 20/20 by default until you get to high d1 in which case slightly higher figures may be beneficial. i also like to give a few extra minutes with press compared to any other set. i was a firm 25/25 or higher man in the time when lostmyth wrote that, so it definitely has changed with the times...

it also matters what your team is like.  IF your team has limited upward potential in skills, it may make sense to spend more on hoop IQ.  Its a choice

Interesting exchange on this topic.   Like having the guys a notch higher for quite a few of the days by using higher minutes on the sets.  Tend to use minimal SH, only bumping up a bit when you get the dreaded yellow lines.  Makes minutes available to bump up the sets a bit.  The guidelines allot more SH to younger players--who just happen to have plenty of skill growth left, while the older players, who need less SH, are starting to max out their skills.  I don't follow the SH guidelines, having determined college GPA is not important, so all you want to do is keep your guys eligible.  That gives more minutes to allot to the skills of younger players.   Will fool around with 23-23 for a bit.